Granting illegal aliens amnesty

[Badger52]

Originally Posted by ic2d

Why are our leaders not instead discussing ways to ease the burden of LEGAL immigration? Perhaps they are and I am simply mis-/uninformed...I doubt it.

In simplistic terms...
One group is (probably) statistically more likely to have the wherewithal & be self-starters - not likely to need much in the way of hand-outs. Ergo, no quid pro quo is possible. The other group is largely fully expectant of being cared & provided for.

Which one looks like a better voter base that would be beholden to the thief who has robbed Peter to pay Paul (or Pedro or whoever)?

[Flagg]

Immigration policy should be more like professional sports recruiting in my opinion.

A sports team's victory begins and ends(with a whole lot of other stuff in the middle) with effective recruiting.

Keep it simple.

Each new team mate added to the team should bring the team average UP.

Any policy that results in each new team mate added bringing DOWN the team average needs to be destroyed with a flamethrower.

It is policy that will inevitably lead to failure.

You could solve this problem overnight with a single TV commercial during the Superbowl:

Put a few illegal aliens with Tuberculosis, Hepatitis, and poor physical/cognitive development in Dallas Cowboys uniforms on their Offensive line to represent a dangerous recruiting/immigration policy for "America's Team".

Then have the 1991 Philadelphia Eagles defense blitz and put Tony Romo in the morgue.

Maybe finish with a bunch of Chinese and Russians in the VIP seats laughing it up.

-----

It's not hard.

I've moved from A to B internationally.

I had a guarantee of permanent residency based on a simple and straight forward official/documented paper trail.

IIRC it took about a week to put my packet together and another week for them to verify it all. At my one and only meeting with the Immigration authority after the meeting they handed me a letter documenting the offer of permanent residency.

It's a free agent world.

The US should be working harder to hoover up the world's best players and more effectively cutting the involuntary deadwood off the bench.

Team management that bring down the team's talent average and their win/loss average usually get fired.

[craigepo]

Originally Posted by Flagg

Immigration policy should be more like professional sports recruiting in my opinion.

A sports team's victory begins and ends(with a whole lot of other stuff in the middle) with effective recruiting.

Keep it simple.

Each new team mate added to the team should bring the team average UP.

Any policy that results in each new team mate added bringing DOWN the team average needs to be destroyed with a flamethrower.

It is policy that will inevitably lead to failure.

You could solve this problem overnight with a single TV commercial during the Superbowl:

Put a few illegal aliens with Tuberculosis, Hepatitis, and poor physical/cognitive development in Dallas Cowboys uniforms on their Offensive line to represent a dangerous recruiting/immigration policy for "America's Team".

Then have the 1991 Philadelphia Eagles defense blitz and put Tony Romo in the morgue.

Maybe finish with a bunch of Chinese and Russians in the VIP seats laughing it up.

-----

It's not hard.

I've moved from A to B internationally.

I had a guarantee of permanent residency based on a simple and straight forward official/documented paper trail.

IIRC it took about a week to put my packet together and another week for them to verify it all. At my one and only meeting with the Immigration authority after the meeting they handed me a letter documenting the offer of permanent residency.

It's a free agent world.

The US should be working harder to hoover up the world's best players and more effectively cutting the involuntary deadwood off the bench.

Team management that bring down the team's talent average and their win/loss average usually get fired.

Interestingly, one of Hitler's fears of the United States, long term, was that the world's talent would all wind up in the United States. One could argue that such a migration has been happening for some time.

[Golf1echo]

Here are a couple of countries with interesting immigration policies.
Iceland has a proactive immigration component where they do actually recruit immigrants from around the world, what little I know of that program is they are looking for stable families that will add and contribute to the area they will immigrate to.
http://www.mcc.is/english/extra/immi...celand/non-eea

Switzerland like the United States share the attribute that a tremendous number of immigrants from around the world would find either country a desirable place to reside. Swiss policies are by nature protective and restrictive with an eye for preserving what makes Switzerland Swiss.
https://www.bfm.admin.ch/bfm/en/home.html
I understand that immigration law is complicated, it is the law and it should be changed if the people want it to be different...or we have nothing more than an arbitrary, disconnected, inequitable, and unenforceable system not based in law. I would hope our system would encourage the best and brightest the innovative and the industrious to come stay and contribute making this country better stronger more capable.

Work programs have fulfilled needs of temporary fluctuation or or migratory work here in the past. Much like the J2 student visa programs participants sign up for a prescribed period which is administered.

Enforcement is a huge component from deportations, prosecutions, revenue and license enforcement. employer sanctions, sanctuary and abetting statutes, a secured border, etc...

A big negative of illegal immigration is the lack of context, the legal immigration process has always made efforts to indoctrinate the new immigrant into the United States fabric with contextual information...we are A Nation of many not many different nations!

It is difficult to understand why anyone would want an immigration system not based on merit, it surely is in the interest of the country as a whole to build and invest back into itself.
MOO

[Flagg]

Originally Posted by Golf1echo

Here are a couple of countries with interesting immigration policies.
Iceland has a proactive immigration component where they do actually recruit immigrants from around the world, what little I know of that program is they are looking for stable families that will add and contribute to the area they will immigrate to.
http://www.mcc.is/english/extra/immi...celand/non-eea

Switzerland like the United States share the attribute that a tremendous number of immigrants from around the world would find either country a desirable place to reside. Swiss policies are by nature protective and restrictive with an eye for preserving what makes Switzerland Swiss.
https://www.bfm.admin.ch/bfm/en/home.html
I understand that immigration law is complicated, it is the law and it should be changed if the people want it to be different...or we have nothing more than an arbitrary, disconnected, inequitable, and unenforceable system not based in law. I would hope our system would encourage the best and brightest the innovative and the industrious to come stay and contribute making this country better stronger more capable.

Work programs have fulfilled needs of temporary fluctuation or or migratory work here in the past. Much like the J2 student visa programs participants sign up for a prescribed period which is administered.

Enforcement is a huge component from deportations, prosecutions, revenue and license enforcement. employer sanctions, sanctuary and abetting statutes, a secured border, etc...

A big negative of illegal immigration is the lack of context, the legal immigration process has always made efforts to indoctrinate the new immigrant into the United States fabric with contextual information...we are A Nation of many not many different nations!

It is difficult to understand why anyone would want an immigration system not based on merit, it surely is in the interest of the country as a whole to build and invest back into itself.
MOO

One thing I have heard about Swiss Immigration is that your local community has a LOT of say in your attempt to convert residency into citizenship(10 year minimum path I believe).

It gets put to a vote(or so I'm told).

If true I could imagine such a policy leading to a more positive and successful civil society.

[Flagg]

Originally Posted by craigepo

Interestingly, one of Hitler's fears of the United States, long term, was that the world's talent would all wind up in the United States. One could argue that such a migration has been happening for some time.

One big advantage of the US is its higher education system acting as a beacon for many of the world's best and brightest.

Sure there are some vulnerabilities with some students(China), but I would think the advantages/opportunities far outweigh them.

[Golf1echo]

Originally Posted by Flagg

One thing I have heard about Swiss Immigration is that your local community has a LOT of say in your attempt to convert residency into citizenship(10 year minimum path I believe).

It gets put to a vote(or so I'm told).

If true I could imagine such a policy leading to a more positive and successful civil society.

Swiss citizenship / Naturalization
It is in Switzerland’s interest that well-integrated foreigners take up Swiss nationality. In the first place, the communes and cantons are responsible for naturalization matters. The Federal Government lays down the relevant criteria.
https://www.bfm.admin.ch/bfm/en/home...rgerrecht.html

Stepping up and owning the place and people you belong to, imagine.

[PedOncoDoc]

It's a shame we can't apply the same logic to firearms - he did not possess any illegal firearms, he only had undocumented firearms.

[(1VB)compforce]

And it turns out that they, democrats, are already set up for the next step. In negotiating it's called "nibbling".

Here's how it plays out. The Executive Order deliberately excludes public welfare, including health care, from the benefits granted to the 5 million. Obamacare, via the employer mandate, forces companies with more than 50 employees to provide health care for all employees or pay a penalty of $3000 per employee THAT SIGNS UP FOR SUBSIDIES OR ON AN EXCHANGE. Since the illegals can't get subsidies or the exchange, but they can work under the EO there is a built-in economic advantage to hiring an illegal over hiring an American citizen.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ses-have-3000/

The article discusses removing the employer mandate as the fix for the problem. That's valid, it would fix it. But, if we assume the goal is to take small steps towards making the illegals legal there's another solution that instantly fixes the problem and can be done under the guise of helping even the playing field for Americans... Just give the illegals the right to health care and subsidies. I expect to see this kind of tactic continue as we move forward. Over the next 3 months expect to see movement to try to give subsidized health care, welfare and voting rights to the illegals. If all three are achieved, the democrats will have a practically unbeatable voting block and our country will be the next third world nation in a very short time.

Oh and for the members of the black population in the low skill markets, the group with the highest unemployment rate, do you really think you'll be able to get a job when the illegals are 7-10% less expensive to hire for the same job? This policy isn't good for anyone except the illegals and the democrats.

[sinjefe]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

I have a slightly diffrent view of how to deal with the immegration issue. First off big companies make/save millions if not billions of dolllars every year using illegal immigrants insted of legal immigrants or US citizens. Used to be migrant farm workers did just low end seasonal jobs but not now. The logging industry is a prime example of how they now use mostly illegals, pay them lower, and even if citizens get in the job the wages have been driven down.

So here is my solution. Raid the places like normal. Deport the workers same as usual. Then go to the front office and arrest every swinging richard in the office that hired the illegals and throw their ass in federal prison for 20 years or so. Not club fed, no I am talking about hard core prison. The jobs for illegals will dry up and then it will cut back the illegals coming here to work.

Next the ones coming here are obviously not looking for work cuz there are no jobs for them. Then hit them hard ie drug runners etc. Can you say death penalty for running drugs across the border no matter what you nationality is etc.

Or companies are fined a draconian percentage (v. a fixed amount) of their profits that increase each time they are caught employing illegals

[sinjefe]

But, we are fantasizing. Neither party will ever do it.

We're doomed.

[Badger52]

Originally Posted by sinjefe

Or companies are fined a DRACONIAN percentage (v. a fixed amount) of their profits that increase each time they are caught employing illegals

OK, I'll ride with that as long as there's 3-strikes you're out. None of this stuff that goes on with driving slaps like "Dispatch I'm clear, citation issued, Operating After Revocation #14."

But you're right; there be not the huevos on either side to do anything like that. Nothing will happen until the word 'illegal' is defined as self-sufficient, as the word is constructed.

[cbtengr]

Originally Posted by sinjefe

But, we are fantasizing. Neither party will ever do it.

We're doomed.

It was kind of done in 2008 here in Iowa and it was very effective, pretty much wiped the community of Postville out. A lot of people were making a lot of money off the illegals. It was very effective, it's just a lot easier in this country to look the other way.

POSTVILLE, Iowa — A raid at a northeastern Iowa meat processing plant this week was the largest in U.S. history, federal authorities said.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials say 390 people were arrested on immigration charges after Monday’s raid at Agriprocessors Inc. in Postville. The facility is the world’s largest kosher meatpacking plant.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/24583537/n.../#.VHZUbcZMvIU

[Badger52]

Was a similar meat-plant 'bout 30 miles away south of here years ago, same situation. Health violations took out that operation. The Deputies in the county probably celebrated since they & dispatch no longer had to wrangle with 4 hyphenated last names during traffic stops.


(maybe they all migrated down to Postville)

[cbtengr]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

Yea they arrested 390 illegals and sent them back. Not one place did I see where they arrested and jailed the US citizens responsible for hiring them or levy large fines against the company. Throw the CEO's ass in prison for 20 or so years and fine the company a billion dollars. After you start doing that the hiring of illegals by these companies will almost disappear.

"The plant manager ended up getting 27 years in prison he was up to his eyeballs in fraud including the hiring of the illegals. "


Although the case against Mr. Rubashkin originally centered on immigration charges, during the trial in Sioux Falls, S.D., prosecutors focused instead on financial abuses when he was in charge of the Agriprocessors slaughterhouse in Postville, Iowa.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/22/us/22iowa.html?_r=0