04-02-2014, 11:30
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#1
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NorCal
Posts: 15,370
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SCOTUS Strikes Down Overall Limits On Political Donations
Dealing a blow to campaign finance reform efforts, the Supreme Court ruled Wednesday in a 5-4 decision that caps on aggregate amounts of political donations are unconstitutional under the First Amendment’s protections on freedom of speech, clearing the way for donors to devote vast sums to federal political campaigns.
http://time.com/#46738/supreme-court...n-finance-law/
And so it goes...
Richard
__________________
“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)
“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
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Richard is offline
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04-02-2014, 11:59
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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Slush Funds
All the laws they created just seemed to hurt the little guys and small orgamizations.
The really deep pockets just created different avenues for directing money to the "right guy".
I agree with the ruling.
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Pete is offline
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04-02-2014, 16:05
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#3
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cochise Co., AZ
Posts: 6,177
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More than likely to help the dems more if past trends continue. OpenSecrets.org released a "Heavy Hitters" list of the top federal elections donors from 1989 to 2014.
By my count, there are 10 unions in the top 15 and 11 before the first Republican donor shows up at number 17. There are also, at least, 22 unions before the hated Koch Industries appears in 59th place.
Pat
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"Hector Lives!"
"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass
"The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." -- Dennis Prager
"The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it." --H.L. Mencken
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PSM is offline
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04-03-2014, 15:45
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#4
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Quiet Professional
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Location: Where the Trade Winds blow
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PSM:
You meant to put that in Pink about the Koch brothers right? 
That's a perfect example of using statistics to sell an idea. If you don't count Super PAC contributions and dark money the list is really misleading. Unions have different disclosure rules than individuals and corporations. Makes the money easier to track.
LHC
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Last hard class is offline
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04-03-2014, 15:53
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#5
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cochise Co., AZ
Posts: 6,177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last hard class
PSM:
You meant to put that in Pink about the Koch brothers right?
LHC |
Nope. Wouldn't you like your business to grow into a major industry leader? Think of the write-offs. . .oh, and ROAD TRIPS! Yea, baby! 
Pat
__________________
"Hector Lives!"
"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass
"The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." -- Dennis Prager
"The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it." --H.L. Mencken
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PSM is offline
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04-03-2014, 15:57
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#6
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Arizona
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PRB is offline
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04-03-2014, 17:15
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: State of Confusion
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“‘Ingratiation and access . . . are not corruption,’”
...why cant I understand why ingratiation and access are EXACTLY corruption.
I am not an educated guy so if I pile a giant heap of currency at your feet to essentially buy a little taste of "ingratiation" and by association access, how in hells half acre is that not the very illustration of political corruption?
Somebody help me understand so I don't loose faith in the SCOTUS like I have lost faith in the House, the Senate, and the POTUS
Somebody please educate me on this one.
__________________
Opinions stated in this post are solely those of the author, and in no way reflect the opinions or policies of The Department of Defense, The United States Army, The Royal Canadian Mounted Police, The Screen Actors Guild, The Boy Scouts, The Good, The Bad, or The Ugly. These opinions are provided purely as overly sarcastic social commentary and are not meant to be used for mission planning or navigation.
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Box is offline
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04-03-2014, 17:32
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#8
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Posts: 6,177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy L-bach
“‘Ingratiation and access . . . are not corruption,’”
...why cant I understand why ingratiation and access are EXACTLY corruption.
I am not an educated guy so if I pile a giant heap of currency at your feet to essentially buy a little taste of "ingratiation" and by association access, how in hells half acre is that not the very illustration of political corruption?
Somebody help me understand so I don't loose faith in the SCOTUS like I have lost faith in the House, the Senate, and the POTUS
Somebody please educate me on this one.
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It's only "corruption" if the politician's position on a subject is changed by it. How is giving money, for whatever reason, to a politician who's position you agree with corrupting that person or the system?
Pat
__________________
"Hector Lives!"
"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass
"The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." -- Dennis Prager
"The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it." --H.L. Mencken
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PSM is offline
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04-03-2014, 19:14
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#9
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: State of Confusion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSM
It's only "corruption" if the politician's position on a subject is changed by it. How is giving money, for whatever reason, to a politician who's position you agree with corrupting that person or the system?
Pat
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Fair enough...
I may not agree, but I see your point.
__________________
Opinions stated in this post are solely those of the author, and in no way reflect the opinions or policies of The Department of Defense, The United States Army, The Royal Canadian Mounted Police, The Screen Actors Guild, The Boy Scouts, The Good, The Bad, or The Ugly. These opinions are provided purely as overly sarcastic social commentary and are not meant to be used for mission planning or navigation.
"Make sure your own mask is secure before assisting others"
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Box is offline
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04-03-2014, 19:30
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#10
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Arizona
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I think the SCOTUS have to look at much more than the case at hand.
If Hollywood (as in the article) that is basically left leaning spends billions of dollars to forward a political/social position in multiple movies from the same company....should they be restricted by the Govt. because it is an unfair monetary advantage?
Very slippery slope when you start restricting individuals from giving their legally earned money to positions/ candidates they support.
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PRB is offline
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04-03-2014, 20:50
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#11
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Posts: 6,177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy L-bach
Fair enough...
I may not agree, but I see your point.
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I understand your position, also, as I used to share it. But, I've learned a bit more over the years. Money in campaigns of congressional elections (both chambers) should not be so important, but it is because of the direct election of senators and the overly large congressional districts.
If senators (following a repeal of the 17th Amendment) were appointed by the state's legislatures, there would be no need for them to fund raise to get elected. And, if the congressional districts were reduced to the original 20 to 30 thousand citizens money would not be as important or influential.
Also, simplifying the tax code would eliminate the tax incentive legislation that money can buy.
Pat
__________________
"Hector Lives!"
"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass
"The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." -- Dennis Prager
"The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it." --H.L. Mencken
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PSM is offline
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04-03-2014, 21:00
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#12
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSM
I understand your position, also, as I used to share it. But, I've learned a bit more over the years. Money in campaigns of congressional elections (both chambers) should not be so important, but it is because of the direct election of senators and the overly large congressional districts.
If senators (following a repeal of the 17th Amendment) were appointed by the state's legislatures, there would be no need for them to fund raise to get elected. And, if the congressional districts were reduced to the original 20 to 30 thousand citizens money would not be as important or influential.
Also, simplifying the tax code would eliminate the tax incentive legislation that money can buy.
Pat
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So, state legislatures are free from corruption and cronyism?
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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04-03-2014, 21:09
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#13
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cochise Co., AZ
Posts: 6,177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
So, state legislatures are free from corruption and cronyism?
TR
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Of course not, but they are much closer to the voters. Take AZ. We have two Senators that vote against the will of the state at almost every turn. Neither would be in DC if it was up to the legislature.
Plus, congress controls the tax and spending, not the senators.
ETA: Roughneck 91, a member of this site, was in the AZ State Legislature. Perhaps he could provide some insight on this.
Pat
__________________
"Hector Lives!"
"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass
"The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." -- Dennis Prager
"The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it." --H.L. Mencken
Last edited by PSM; 04-03-2014 at 21:22.
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PSM is offline
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04-04-2014, 07:44
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#14
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: State of Confusion
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So I have to ask...
If both US Senators from AZ consistently vote against the state, and the only reason they continue to get reelected is money, then how are they not corrupted by "legal" money?
Again, I completely get the slippery slope of the government legislating what I can spend my money on. If you want to spend a quarter of a million bucks paying for tomato stakes and posters to put yard signs up across the state of Arizona, then I agree that you should be able to pound signs in any ones front yard that cares to support you.
....................But I have become increasingly doubtful that the check for 250,000 dollars would go completely into paying for yard signs, billboards and ad time on TV and radio. I also find increasingly evident that the folks that can afford donate kind of money to what (unfortunately) has become a popularity contest, are not the same folks that are donating money because they are ideologically aligned with a politicians stance on gun control, same sex marriage, military spending, welfare, unemployment, foreign policy, or any other "ideological" issue. The guy that can afford a $250,000 campaign donation is probably donating because he "agrees" with that politicians stance on keeping my bullshit government contract open, or his stance on keeping the zoning laws constant that prevent me from paying additional business taxes...
In short, my base intent for donating hundreds of thousands of dollars to a political campaign is NOT to thank the distinguished senator from Arizona for voting "my" conscience on socially defining issues. My base intent is to remind him that I make 1.5 million a year off of his vote to renew my contract and that as long as I have my contract, I will continue putting a check for 250,000 bucks into his campaign slush fund.
Is altruism dead in America? Absolutely not.
Is it dead in politics? I think the REAL jury is still out on that one.
__________________
Opinions stated in this post are solely those of the author, and in no way reflect the opinions or policies of The Department of Defense, The United States Army, The Royal Canadian Mounted Police, The Screen Actors Guild, The Boy Scouts, The Good, The Bad, or The Ugly. These opinions are provided purely as overly sarcastic social commentary and are not meant to be used for mission planning or navigation.
"Make sure your own mask is secure before assisting others"
-Airplane Safety Briefing
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Box is offline
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04-04-2014, 08:05
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#15
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Quiet Professional
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSM
Of course not, but they are much closer to the voters. Take AZ. We have two Senators that vote against the will of the state at almost every turn. Neither would be in DC if it was up to the legislature.
Plus, congress controls the tax and spending, not the senators.
ETA: Roughneck 91, a member of this site, was in the AZ State Legislature. Perhaps he could provide some insight on this.
Pat
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I live in NC.
The state legislature was controlled by Dims for more than 100 years, despite the repeated election of extremely conservative Republican Senators.
Trust me, if the Legislature appointed Senators, we would have been more than 100 years without seeing a single Republican appointed Senator.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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