Survive! - Page 6

**The Reaper** · 04-15-2005, 07:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by 72_Wilderness

If you have fire, from the glasses. You can burn through whatever you need to cut. Slow and primative but it works, sort of.

I want to see you gut game and clean fish with fire.

Do you have a lot of survival experience?

TR

72_Wilderness · 04-15-2005, 21:31

TR, I said it works sort of, sorry I wasn't more clear. I was meaning that it would work for cutting through wood, rope, and other such related things. I see your point about the cleaning of game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Do you have a lot of survival experience?

I am still alive.

If you mean like actual in-the-field experience, it would be safe to say that you have done more than I have.
As far as my training goes, I can proudly say that I earned the Wilderness Survival Merit badge through the Boy Scouts of America and I have read parts of an Air Force Survival Manual. I know it is nothing compared to what you have been thruogh and have been taught and learned, but it is a good start; don't you think?

**The Reaper** · 04-15-2005, 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by 72_Wilderness

TR, I said it works sort of, sorry I wasn't more clear. I was meaning that it would work for cutting through wood, rope, and other such related things. I see your point about the cleaning of game.

I am still alive.

If you mean like actual in-the-field experience, it would be safe to say that you have done more than I have.
As far as my training goes, I can proudly say that I earned the Wilderness Survival Merit badge through the Boy Scouts of America and I have read parts of an Air Force Survival Manual. I know it is nothing compared to what you have been thruogh and have been taught and learned, but it is a good start; don't you think?

I think if I was a 17 year old, I would be lurking here unless I had some expertise or knowledge that would be valuable. I certainly would not argue survival with an experienced SF soldier.

I would not walk around my house without a knife in my pocket, much less attempt an extended survival period without one. I would love to see you get by in the woods for 60 days without one though.

I think that you are fairly well trained for 17, in this day and age. Most of those here who grew up in a rural area 30 or 40 years ago could teach you a lot, if you would listen.

Think about it.

TR

72_Wilderness · 04-15-2005, 23:19

TR, I was not trying to argue any survival point, I was only trying to provide a different angle on how to cut something such as rope or wood. I would rather have a axe, saw or knife but in situations like the one described we have to make do with what we have.

“I would not walk around my house without a knife in my pocket.” I carry a knife at almost all possible times unless the law prohibits it.

“I would love to see you get by in the woods for 60 days without one though.” It would be a difficult challenge and very much a noteworthy accomplishment if it is done.

“I think that you are fairly well trained for 17, in this day and age.” Thank you, but I know that there is much more for me to learn. Much to learn this young Jedi does. Much to teach the old Jedi can.

“Most of those here who grew up in a rural area 30 or 40 years ago could teach you a lot, if you would listen.

Think about it.”

I am listening, (I admit I did something extremely dumb, I posted before I read the entire thread. That method takes all the fun out reading on this site, so I will read the entire thread before I post again.)

TR, I know you are busy and I would not want to become a bother, but I would really like to hear what you have to talk about on this subject more in depth, based on the post I have read it is safe to say that you are good in the woods. If my math is correct I assume that you are talking about yourself and others?

It took a bit of time but reading everyone’s input was worth it.

One item two uses with a bit of rigging. If you magnetize the needle and place it in water, preferably in a cup or something you can move, you have a compass. Only a slight problem, that is fixable, of knowing north and south, other than that it is good as any other compass (so long as the magnetism holds on the needle.)

ZoneOne · 10-10-2005, 00:49

There's a show out now on the Science Channel (part of Discovery) called Surivor Man.

The guy is a survival expert and seems to be similar to Tom Brown Jr.
Scenarios are portrayed for the sake of entertainment and a plot. He films himself for a week.

He only carries few equipment, stuff you would normally have in any situation.

Pretty interesting show, any survival enthusiasts out there might want to check it out.

Usually comes on around 9pm EST on Fridays.

**Team Sergeant** · 10-10-2005, 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZoneOne

There's a show out now on the Science Channel (part of Discovery) called Surivor Man.

The guy is a survival expert and seems to be similar to Tom Brown Jr.

Expert might be a little stretched when assigned to this guy. I was very unimpressed with his airplane crash survival episode, he almost didn't make it, another day or two and he would have been dead. Great show for the empty headed MTV crowd.

Team Sergeant

longtab · 10-10-2005, 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Expert might be a little stretched when assigned to this guy. I was very unimpressed with his airplane crash survival episode, he almost didn't make it, another day or two and he would have been dead. Great show for the empty headed MTV crowd.

Team Sergeant

I watched that episode last night with the wife. Disclamer or no disclamer someone is gonna follow his Darwin-istic lead right into the wilderness and become a human popsicle. Some people will do anything for a buck.

ZoneOne · 10-10-2005, 12:37

Watch again, his Plane Crash episode was one of the worst I've seen.

By expert I was more meaning he had a lot of skill in the art of, tracking, trapping, friction fire, and the knowledge of plants and trees (ex. what is good to eat, what bark lights up better)

He's been all around the world surviving in harsh conditions for 7 days on his own. I think he is qualified to be considered an expert.
______________________________________________

"I was very unimpressed with his airplane crash survival episode, he almost didn't make it, another day or two and he would have been dead. "

Care to go into further detail?

10-10-2005, 13:01

ZoneOne, not to be rude or anything, but you may want to search for a thread on alpine mountaineering to get a different perspective on how these gentlemen consider civilian 'experts'.

Martin

Sten · 10-10-2005, 14:29

Post removed by poster.

Sorry I was not thinking when I posted in here.

Cheers,

Sten.

**Team Sergeant** · 10-10-2005, 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZoneOne

Watch again, his Plane Crash episode was one of the worst I've seen.

By expert I was more meaning he had a lot of skill in the art of, tracking, trapping, friction fire, and the knowledge of plants and trees (ex. what is good to eat, what bark lights up better)

He's been all around the world surviving in harsh conditions for 7 days on his own. I think he is qualified to be considered an expert.
______________________________________________

"I was very unimpressed with his airplane crash survival episode, he almost didn't make it, another day or two and he would have been dead. "

Care to go into further detail?

Zoneone,

I’m not going to play your jerry springer lets prey on the stupid people game. The guy is not a survival expert by any stretch of the imagination.

“Scientific American” March 2005 issue, an “Ask the Experts” question. “How long can a person survive without food?” Answer from a knowledgeable physician in this very field and I quote, “Without liquid or foods people typically perish after 10 – 14 days.” Alan D. Lieberson, M.D.

This guy is producing another MTV level reality show. Seven days without food or water as a “real” expert said, would not likely kill him. If and when he survives for months on end then and only then would I consider him an “expert” in the field of survival.

You really should do more reading and less watching of the TV. (I actually watched this episode only because it was on the “Scientific Channel”, I didn’t watch it all because it did not take long to figure out it was pure BS, but great for 12 year olds actually.) I would place this guys abilities right up there with a boy scout.

And to answer your question, yes I've been to a Special Forces survival school/schools, to include winter, desert and jungle survival. Oh and the schools I attended incorporated surviving while being hunted by really bad men.

Team Sergeant
(Once survived six months without beer in a hostile environment!Desert Storm)

longtab · 10-10-2005, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZoneOne

Care to go into further detail?

Heck why not. I’ll go into further detail.

I was raised in Alaska not as a city kid, but as an Alaskan. And after having personally taught civilian "survival" courses in the Arctic between my first and second stints in the Army I can validate TS's statement that 'Surivor Man' wasn't holding his own against the elements and would at best have laid in the woods for maybe another two days or so before paying for his disrespect of an unforgiving environment. Ever read Jack London’s “To Build a Fire”?

Surivor Man's skills "in the art of, tracking, trapping, friction fire, and the knowledge of plants and trees (ex. what is good to eat, what bark lights up better)" were at best basic skills anyone who ventures into the wild should be very familiar with. After a plane crash isn't the time to experiment with fire starting techniques. After all… what make’s a high-speed guy high-speed? Mastery of basic skills…

The first of his skills I found lacking was his priorities of work. His priorities should have been shelter, then fire, then water, then food, and then rescue (which he never addressed).

Firstly he should have taken inventory of what he had at his disposal. He was pretty amped about getting a fire going, and understandably so. But he didn't gather enough fuel for the fire, tinder, or kindling. He gathered some, but not enough. He didn't prepare the fire site adequately; he threw a chuck of aluminum on the ground for a base... that was it. He should have cleared the snow to the ground, built his fire base (ever thaw out perma-frost? Gets sorta soggy), built a fire deflector into his already build shelter, and then used his ample supply of firewood to start a fire that would actually help keep you alive… I would rather set my head on fire than get up in the middle of the night to find wood to keep a fire alive. Keep the fire alive and it will keep you alive. ANYWAY, He finally gets the fire going thru a liberal use of av-fuel. Here's a piece of UBI (Useless Bit 'o Info), all those little branches he kept snapping off as he walked thru the woods... that's kindling, use it. In cold environments don't waste time using (dulling) and axe for firewood. You should "club" low-lying branches (squaw wood) off the trees, because the tree's sap is brittle and will snap with little effort... conservation of effort. At least later he eventually prepared some char-cloth, albeit a few pieces.Luckily he maintains the fire (little victories) as he turns his attention to shelter.

Meanwhile its getting dark, and he still didn't have adequate shelter for the night. So onto his most important task in the Arctic… shelter. The plane as shelter? Come on... have you ever decided to wait in the car at the shopping center with the heat off in the winter? You get cold VERY fast. He was in an evergreen forest! All that snow and all those trees... he should have lived like a king. He should have moved back into the trees twenty meters or so. I won’t go in into the plethora of shelters he could have made, I will simply address one we’re all familiar with… the lean-to. Everyone has made at least one in the life even if it was made from sofa cushions. All he needed to do was get one sturdy pole to used as a cross member and lash it (gotta know knots, or tie a lot) between two trees. Take your firewood-fetching club and start wacking down evergreen boughs. Enough for ideally 18” of compacted boughs on the top of the shelter and the bottom (which you have excavated of snow). Not enough time or daylight? Ok skimp a little on each and add more in the morning. He should have slept very comfortably tucked back in the woods in his lean-to with the radiant heat of his fire being reflected into the shelter from the. Instead he sorta improved his air-plane shell buy rearranging a few pieces and using his jacket (!) as a door. Not the best use of a wool jacket.

Let’s address water… eating snow? NO. He even said you’re not supposed to, but opted rather to lower his core temperature. Melt ice… conservation of effort. Ya ever melt snow? You don’t get alotta bang for the buck. He was trying to chop his way to fish and water away from the shoreline. The ice is thinner near the shore anyway so chop there. But do it with a better tool than an axe. He should/could have fashioned a 6’ long ice pick to aide in the process… conservation of effort. Then take a few chunks of ice, stuff them in a sock or a bag made from the skin of the plane, hang it next to the fire over a vessel and melt the ice. Then drink the water. Not a lot of wasted effort since you’re already in your shelter getting warm, entertained by keeping the fire stoked, and plotting you next move towards rescue escape.

Food… seven days. Hmm… tough call. I would spend the evening in my shelter making snares clubs and a spear while sipping pine needle tea. In the morning I would set the snares out and do a little foraging. Food can be foraged, but traps require the skill of construction and scheme of emplacement.

So I’ve just set out my snares, chewed on some pine tree meat, gathered more firewood, improved, maybe put up a shadow-stick compass for poops-&-giggles… now what? Well you’re in a survival situation still… get rescued! Start constructing static signals, build three (int’l distress number) signal tepees, drag the carcass of the plane onto the ice and clear the snow from around the base, lay some pine boughs out on the lake too… get seen! Survival ain’t sitting in an airplane feeling sorry for yourself procrastinating the walk out if need be, or not improving your immediate situation. If it took a year to get rescued he should be found with a cabin and a boat dock and a smokehouse for fish. Oh you are walking out? Gather enough supplies, walk for a day, stop, do it all again, and repeat until you’re back to civilization. And then try to not get mugged at 7-11 or die in a car wreck.

One last (yeah, yeah, I know...) point. Make tools for specific tasks. Don’t misuse an axe and risk breaking the handle, or misuse it and injure yourself. Make clubs, spears, snares, atlatl’s or whatever, just use them in a safe manner so you don’t cause injury to yourself. Did you see in the episode where he could have cut himself trying to rip a piece of the plane by hand? And then he tried it again! And he rarely wore his mittens during the day. Clothes are shelter too, and he kept taking them off. That’s right, because he didn’t have gloves. Well if you’re going into the Arctic wear thin “contact” gloves so skin never has to touch anything especially metal.

If anything his lack of appreciation for the environment kicked up a few ideas in people’s minds. Maybe his show gets more people interested in “survival” skills, and that’s good. You need to know how to survive in any environment… in the city, on the farm, in the woods, on the water, desert, etc. Survival is living. And the skills you acquire will help you survive. He should of at least used the Boy Scout motto as a guideline… “Be Prepared.”

And to caveat Team Sergeant… it IS a different game altogether when you are having to survive while being hunted. TS, I don’t know if I could have survived six months without beer.

My 2¢, and then some.

CPTAUSRET · 10-10-2005, 16:07

longtab:

Great post! Spot on!

I don't believe I ever went six months w/out beer.

Terry

jatx · 10-10-2005, 16:43

Longtab,

Now that's how you resurrect a thread from near-death! Huzzah!

ZoneOne · 10-11-2005, 09:59

Thanks for the post longtab,

Like I said, the episode we are referring to was terrible compared to the rest. Other episodes show greater skill and knowledge, but I retract my statement of claiming him as an expert.
"He was in an evergreen forest! All that snow and all those trees... he should have lived like a king"
I agree on the shelter he made, with all the evergreens, he could have made something better and warmer :-) I've taken a winter survival course, though I was cold all the time (I'm from Florida) once I learned proper shelters I was sleeping comfortably enough. He claimed to wake up every 15 minutes because of the cold, that would have killed him if he kept on.

Survival skills are something I enjoy learning and practicing, so I have taken a liking to this show simply because it's actually something to watch on t.v. compared to all the crap. I think though, he may "dumb down" his show to give the average joe an idea of what it would really be like. Maybe, just a thought

If you've got time, keep watching, you may or may not find humor in watching him try and "survive"