11-14-2014, 17:33
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#1
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Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: The Black Hills of SD
Posts: 5,917
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Medical Scenario V
Alright, let's get these scenarios back up and running ....
You respond on a respiratory emergency and find a patient unresponsive at a local restaurant. Bystanders are performing CPR.
They report to you that the patient started choking and attempts at the Heimlich were unsuccessful.
The patient has extremely labored, shallow, stridorous agonal respirations. He is cyanotic. There is a palpable carotid pulse. It is extremely difficult to ventilate the patient via BVM.
You grab a laryngoscope, visualize the cords, and see the following ...
What are your next steps in patient care and stabilization?
Other thoughts/considerations?
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Sdiver is offline
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11-15-2014, 04:42
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#2
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NM
Posts: 525
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If you have a scope you likely have Mcgills as well. Latch on and remove. Failing that, continue to ventilate, you did say it was difficult, not impossible. Failing that, needle cric.
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NurseTim is offline
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11-15-2014, 11:09
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#3
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Occupied Northlandia
Posts: 1,697
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^^^ this plus O2.
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miclo18d is offline
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11-15-2014, 16:29
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#4
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 3,834
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Do I have a cricothyrotomy kit? If not I improvise. Use the oropharyngeal airway to support the opening and pass O2 through a cannula. Transport to the hospital for extraction of the foreign body or surgical repair of the trachea as the case may be.
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Last edited by Trapper John; 11-15-2014 at 16:31.
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Trapper John is offline
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11-16-2014, 14:10
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#5
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Asset
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: North Texas
Posts: 10
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I just want to say that some of you exhibit better clinical reasoning than more than a few Nurse Anesthetists, Anesthesiologists, PAs and ICU docs I've seen attempt airway rescue.
I won't say what I would do as it has already been posted (twice).
ETA: Also, remember, at this point you have a free hand to feel the anterior neck and possibly improve your view while also assessing.
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Last edited by Stephens; 11-16-2014 at 14:14.
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Stephens is offline
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11-16-2014, 16:04
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#6
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Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: The Black Hills of SD
Posts: 5,917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocIllinois
I'm still wondering about level of training.
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Current level of training is what YOU are currently at ... EMT Basic, Advanced, Paramedic, RN, PA, MD, etc ....
Take the scenario for what it's worth.
"YOU respond on a respiratory emergency and find a patient unresponsive at a local restaurant." ... meaning that you are on a first response vehicle, with the appropriate ALS stocked bag(s).
The fact that YOU "grab a laryngoscope, visualize the cords ..." tells that this is an advanced airway procedure, so this would RO Basics and Advanced EMTs.
Don't READ into the post or the picture too much. This scenario is very much seen and any subsequent Tx is within the scope of first-responders (Paramedics and above).
Yes, knowing what the Pt. was eating is good to know, but looking at the picture and given that there is some, although minimal, air movement, it very well could be an undercooked piece of elbow macaroni.
Not only did I post this for training purposes, but in a situation like this, there are inevitably two camps as for initial treatment.
.... and GO.
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Sdiver is offline
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11-16-2014, 17:58
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Location, Location
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Does he have a nice watch? Is there any unattended lobster or filet mignon?
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MR2 is offline
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11-16-2014, 18:09
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#8
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Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: The Black Hills of SD
Posts: 5,917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR2
Does he have a nice watch? Is there any unattended lobster or filet mignon?
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Tsk, tsk, tsk ... He's only MOSTLY dead, he's NOT all dead.
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Sdiver is offline
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11-16-2014, 18:51
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#9
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Harrisburg, PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR2
Does he have a nice watch? Is there any unattended lobster or filet mignon?
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You funny Petason!
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Trapper John is offline
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11-16-2014, 21:20
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#10
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 377
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Knife, please....
ie - he is already cyanotic and cannot ventilate with a BVM. He needs a surgical airway.
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RichL025 is offline
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11-17-2014, 06:45
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#11
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Area Commander
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Northeast Utah
Posts: 1,712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL025
Knife, please....
ie - he is already cyanotic and cannot ventilate with a BVM. He needs a surgical airway.
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I agree with RichL. I'm surprised there aren't more secretions with that obstruction - it's likely also obstructing the esophagus with how rigid it appears.
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PedOncoDoc is offline
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11-17-2014, 12:01
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#12
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Clarksville, TN
Posts: 1,159
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Looks like half of a fortune cookie lodged in there.
Agree I'd grab it ASAP, before it softens up and drops into the trachea / lungs.
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CSB is offline
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12-06-2014, 21:26
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#13
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Asset
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 13
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Im coming to this conversation late. But as a CRNA and an old street medic, I would remove the obstruction with the Magils and admin O2. Ive had this exact scenario once before.
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Koldsteel is offline
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12-07-2014, 10:49
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#14
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NM
Posts: 525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopefully
I'd attempt to remove it via suction. Should that work, I'd go for my second attempt at combitube insertion.
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Why would you intubate after removal? Possible airway edema secondary to trauma?
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NurseTim is offline
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12-15-2014, 21:58
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#15
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Asset
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NurseTim
Why would you intubate after removal? Possible airway edema secondary to trauma?
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Airway edema is surely possible and if the obstruction is complete, negative pressure pulmonary edema is possible. If the patient is tolerating my laryngoscope then he will tolerate the ETT. I can always extubate later.
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Koldsteel is offline
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