My SFAS Failure

[Hacksaw]

Having spent so much time working with regular Army units over the last 10 years I have found there is absolutely an enormous difference between SF guys and everyone else. I guess you could say we're not better, not worse, but definitely have different mental wiring.

[WarriorDiplomat]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I was talking to SUT students several years ago.

They were commiserating about how early in the training, what a bunch of assholes they thought the SUT cadre were and how they really weren't anything special either.

Then, on a training event, a charge went off early and some people got hurt.

They said that the biggest cadre asshole of all happened to be an 18D and when the shit hit the fan, he grabbed a bag and went to work treating, stabilizing, triaging, etc. He was a completely different person.

The students said that they all wanted to be like him after seeing him doing his medic magic, and maybe the cadre weren't really as bad as they had thought.



Look up Special Forces and neuropeptide Y.

Neuropeptide Y is a stress buffer that allows people to better deal with stressful situations with less physical and mental performance degradation.

They studied some SERE classes and found that you could pick out the SF students over the others by their NPY responses to extreme stress, like interrogations. It was a nearly complete correlation. The psychs said that they could take the results of the NPY measurements, and make a stack of the highest performers, and the lowest, and the SF students were all in the high-performance stack, and none of the other branches or services were, to include Rangers and 160th.

Basically, as one of the psychs explained it to me, SF guys underperform in no to low-stress situations, and overperform in high-stress situations that would cause normal people to shut down. He drew a little graph that depicted SF performance across a stress event. SF guys tend to be pretty casual and maybe even lazy until the excitement starts, and then their performance goes off the top of the chart while others curl up into a little ball and quit.

Our selection and assessment process somehow found those people with an extreme degree of predictabilitly.

He said that they weren't sure how we did it, but the SFAS program for that time was optimized beyond their improvement for selecting the SF soldiers we wanted.

I guess the point of this is that you can't really judge SF until you are one, and even then, maybe not until you see them in action on a high stress event.


The Psyches at SFAS still use the same profile to select and I can tell you being a Cadre 2X that they are being gamed. I remember the study and the study does not address the discipline issues we have in today's force that is reflected in a lack of professionalism.

We don't select everyone, and that is good thing for the Regiment, and for the non-selects.

TR

Unfortunately the guys described here are the a-holes like the SUT medic who's bad attitude and the under performing lazy guys day to day activities are the guys who burden the team daily and take away from the critical vigilance needed for these other countries.

[WarriorDiplomat]

Originally Posted by Synsei

TR- Great story. Definitely one for my suck bank. I have a comedy bank that is filled with memories of funny things that dates back to cartoons I watched as a kid. I tap in to it when I need to pass the time. My suck bank is full of personal experiences and secondhand experiences that I tap into when I start to feel sorry for myself. Now I can say to myself "Shut your face. TR said that guy's feet looked like hamburger."

This site is great because I've never seen so much input and feedback from verified SF guys. There's no coddling here, just good, solid information. I only knew one SF guy when I was working at the SF recruiting station prepping for SFAS. He would come and show his face every so often, but I really didn't know what his role was there. I also got the feeling that he didn't really want to be there (which is understandable if you'd rather be on a team somewhere). He was kind of brash, liked his drinks, and, from what I heard was a bit of a womanizer. BUT there was just something about him when it was "go time". Very professional. I knew I wanted to be like him...mostly.

Another indelible mark was left on me as well. I was returning from some errand with the recruiting station NCOIC. We didn't see very many green berets worn on Ft. Hood, but here came one headed right for us. It turns out to be CSM Richard Efurd (sp). We introduced ourselves very formally and he put out his hand and said "Hi, I'm Richard. Glad to meet you." Being part of the big Army, I couldn't even fathom what just happened. I remember feeling awkward like I had stolen something.

Anyways, back to PT.

I appreciate the story but are you looking for some sort of validation?

I read your posts about suck banks, comedy banks etc...and am a little confused as to what it is you are looking for?.

I think most here have their own inner drive motivators and how we deal with misery and the suck and stress but I can't explain to anyone here why I tolerate it. Every time I go through a suck it changes and I cannot describe why or where it comes from.

Do you want to hear am I afraid of failing the answer is NO

Do I like the high of exceeding expectations YES

Am I afraid of letting others down the answer is YES

Do I feel the excruciating pain of tore up feet YES

Do my shoulders hurt carrying a heavy ruck YES

Do I like being wet NO

Do I like being hot NO

Do I hate the humidity, mosquitoes, nats, scuffed up skin, bleeding heels, and sore spots, bloody lower back, fatigue, being thirsty YES, YES, YES

All I can tell you is I wanted to be a Green Beret and I understood I would have to face myself and accept it if I wasn't tough enough and understand if I lacked what they were looking for. Every time the suck changed and or got worse I had something for it I always seemed to.

So what is it you are looking for from us? just do it and quit reflecting on why you failed.

[Hacksaw]

Hey WD, I completely get that, I wanted to be a Green Beret since the age of 6, there was nothing else I ever considered and even now, having been out for 11 years I still gravitate to jobs that replicate those same skills. When I was working on my degree in psychology from Campbell I spoke to the USASOC psychs (I may have been the first SF guy to walk into their office voluntarily) and asked them what they found to be a constant in the mental acuity and particularities of an SF guy; there was none they said. I think what you mentioned earlier may very well be the base line for guys that make it through the process and I believe the process may have occurred accidentally (or some really smart guy happened to notice something, could go either way).

[Synsei]

Originally Posted by WarriorDiplomat

I appreciate the story but are you looking for some sort of validation?

I read your posts about suck banks, comedy banks etc...and am a little confused as to what it is you are looking for?


....So what is it you are looking for from us? just do it and quit reflecting on why you failed.

Good morning. I'm not sure what I posted that gave the impression that I am looking for something. Was it my original post or my response to TR's comment? I just like to keep my mind occupied when I'm (admin) rucking so I'll think about a past experience, funny stories, etc. to pass the time. I do not seek validation. Additionally, if I do not reflect on why I think I failed, I cannot effectively generate a plan to mitigate/correct my weaknesses. Subsequently I'd be setting myself up to fail again.

[WarriorDiplomat]

Originally Posted by Synsei

Good morning. I'm not sure what I posted that gave the impression that I am looking for something. Was it my original post or my response to TR's comment? I just like to keep my mind occupied when I'm (admin) rucking so I'll think about a past experience, funny stories, etc. to pass the time. I do not seek validation. Additionally, if I do not reflect on why I think I failed, I cannot effectively generate a plan to mitigate/correct my weaknesses. Subsequently I'd be setting myself up to fail again.

Their is an AAR as to why you failed with solutions then their is a failure mindset that screams I am intimidated by SFAS and am looking for the magic reason I couldn't sustain my grit. I can't quite read you it sounds that you followed and gauged yourself by others instead of blazing forward on your own accord.

[Hacksaw]

Don't over think this shit dude, one foot in front of the other, concentrate on the task at hand. Plenty of time to look at the big picture once you get your tab. I've seen some big ol studly dudes quit and some little skinny fellas pass. Good luck

[Hacksaw]

Probably a dick answer but it really depends on how bad you want to be an SF guy. I didn't have a broken back or cracked skull, bones heal, blood clots, the human body is tough. Shit, I cut my own cast off so I could sign into the weapons course on my time line, foots fine, wrist is ok, at 47 I still patrol with ODA's and the infantry (although, everything hurts like a bitch). I'm not alone, far from it, lots of guys go through tremendous pain to have the privilege to be on an ODA and perform that mission. The tab says Special Forces, not Regular Forces, there is a price to pay to be in this club, the price some have paid has been permanent injury and no tab, that's life.

[x SF med]

I think it still should be as quiet as when LHC, TS, TR and a few others went through.... Here's the packing list, here's your report date, be on time in the right uniform and you'll find out everything else when you do it. Can't anticipate what you don't know.

And then get Bob Howard greeting you at CMK, ready to ruck.

[WarriorDiplomat]

Originally Posted by Broadsword2004

One thing I am curious about, but if one sustains such an injury during SFAS (broken foot or wrist for example), how do you know whether you should keep going or not, because if you have an injury, even if you are mentally capable of completing the training, couldn't you permanently injure yourself and thus prevent yourself from being able to become a Special Forces soldier? For example,

Debating whether or not to quit and self assessing your injuries or perceived injuries and quitting to preserve yourself is exactly what selection is for. You cannot quit real world when isolated in a jackpot or on an escape and evasion corridor. What we want for our foundation to build our GB's off of is the guy who continues the mission despite his personal discomforts. We have doctors, lawyers and scientist who go through SFAS and all that succeed have the character trait described above and that is they value mission and team above self despite the pain and injury.

[1stindoor]

Originally Posted by x SF med

I think it still should be as quiet as when LHC, TS, TR and a few others went through.... Here's the packing list, here's your report date, be on time in the right uniform and you'll find out everything else when you do it. Can't anticipate what you don't know.

And then get Bob Howard greeting you at CMK, ready to ruck.

I did SFAS...when it was still SFOT (in'88). The nice thing about it back then was that nobody really knew anything about the course and you had to just hope, "your best," as in "just do your best" was good enough to pass.

[The Reaper]

I applaud anyone who would consider his selection or failure and share his honest and candid thoughts here.

A really good candidate can take the criticism of the QPs and use it to drive his future successes.

I would hate to discourage candidates from sharing their stories with others, unless they are violating OPSEC.

Some candidates better understand the reasons for their failures than others.

TR

[Joker]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I applaud anyone who would consider his selection or failure and share his honest and candid thoughts here.

A really good candidate can take the criticism of the QPs and use it to drive his future successes.

I would hate to discourage candidates from sharing their stories with others, unless they are violating OPSEC.

Some candidates better understand the reasons for their failures than others.

TR

Yes.

[Aus CDO]

That was a good story. Self analysis is the key to winning .. next time, if there is a next time.

The Australian Army Commando units in the 80's where small, very small, and starved of funds and opportunities but we didn't care. The thing was to pass selection and training (an advanced form of selection) and get the Green Beret, or the Green Hat, or just 'The Hat' as we called it.

The first weekend was selection; basically to get 105 applicants down to the platoon of 30 that the unit wanted to start training. We did PT, logs, rope climbs, man carries, runs, more, and then all over again and again until the DS got the numbers they wanted. All through the weekend a precession of people walked or limped out the Gate. I remember that was all I focussed on was .. The Hat, which was at least a year away, regardless of what ever was coming in the next 10 minutes. One hill climb up a track called 'the pipeline' was a blank in my mind, all I remember was starting it and the next thing I was doing situps on the oval on top of the hill about half an hour later. Whatever happened, it did not involve the Gate.

I passed selection and started training. Thanks to a smashed up ankle I watched the rest of my course get their Green Beret while I was on the side lines on crutches with an ankle full of bolts and plates, and working in the office with bits of paper. I didn't care. When the next course started, I told our CO that I would be able to do everything except run, and he said 'Do it'. He was an SAS guy and his attitude was that crawling over the line with no fingernails or toenails left was better than not starting.
That wasn't quite correct about the runs, I did the 15Km within 90 minutes with gear run, with the bolted up ankle anyway. As always, nothing mattered except - The Hat.

Eventually the bolts came out, the surgeon said it was the best repair job he had seen and I had obviously been doing some exercise. I didn't tell him exactly what that had been.

After a total of two long years from Day One, I got that Green Beret one cold night on our Parade Ground under the yellow sodium vapour lights with the rain streaking down. And that was just what I was after.

I agree about the SF brain wiring being different to that of others, including Infantry. Infantry dudes may not mind being cold, wet, starved, dehydrated, and exhausted if they think it proves a point. SF guys in the same boat do it because they see that it's good practise for the day/night when it's real. We also have more of a big picture look.
The unit's emphasis from Day One was - never stop and never give up, and they selected and trained accordingly. If the shit hit the fan in the real deal then you would have been a long way from support in a small group, and only one type of person gets the job done. The advantage to us being that the enemy would give up or slacken off first.

Funny stuff that illustrates a point:
I remember one exercise we were on early in the training phase, alongside an existing Green Hat platoon and some 'others'. Field rations at a stop were packaged food and prefabricated coffee - a coffee/sugar/milk block stuck to the bottom of the paper cup - add water and there it is Living like Kings.
A voice comes up.. 'what do you do if there's no water ?'.. One of our guys said ' Yeah, just break the bottom out of the cup and eat it like a biscuit.' One of the Green Hats said 'Mate, you'll do just fine here '

Another time we had a night ocean water ops exercise with our Zodiac GR3 inflatables that involved rafting four together and holding a position at sea for an hour until time 'H'. No wind, a current that needed a 1 knot headway in a choppy sea, everything is moving chaotically with the 1 meter waves, there is no horizon, no visibility, and we were in our own cloud of petrol and exhaust fumes, all which of course were the perfect conditions for sea sickness and lots of it. Vomit ruled. The fish were almost jumping into the Zodies to get a head start on their mates. I think none of the professional fishing boats further out caught a thing that night thanks to our contribution.
In all this, we had somehow acquired three RAAF Airfield Defense Guards, the RAAF 'Infantry', who had come along for the ride, who instead were now curled up in foetal positions, laying in the oily vomity water sloshing around the bottom, and drooling over the side. They had given up on doing their jobs, their weapons were just laying in all the filth, while in front of another Service. This was all new, they had no control, and they had nothing left. One asked what we would do if they got really sick. One of our guys replied slowly that we would ' just watch', prompting another dry retch ...
Between feeding the fish, watching fish jumping out of the water, listening to the RAAF blubbering in the background, and taking bearings on a shore light which was my job, my only thought was that I was glad to be with people who thought that all this was normal and who would never stop or give up.
An hour later we got wrecked in the surf doing a pickup, trashed the Zodie, and the next night almost got run over by a non-deconflicting RAN destroyer. We thought that was normal too (although interesting).

My advice for the SF applicant ? Eat and eat again, and good stuff only. Keep the carbs pouring in because you'll need each one. Drink - stay hydrated. Upper body strength. And lower body strength. Just think about the badge or beret at the end of it, nothing else, it's the passport to a great life. Your girlfriend's big warm olive-oil covered tits do not matter. Mates are good but remember the fact that most of the people you know now will not be with you in your SF unit, doing SF work, in a couple of years time, and the people you will be with then, and you, will be very different to those around you now.
Ponder fully that 'who you are' and 'what you do' are two very separate things.

I just wish I was doing this now. Joining in say, 1997 would have been the dream number, barring misfortune.

I copied this below from another page - its not mine, but it says everything and it is truly beautiful. Keep it to heart:
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause. Still want to quit?

The End.

[conco303]

As a guy going into SFAS, not one with the luxury of reminiscing on my days afterwards, I greatly appreciate what you shared with us. In a way that story reminded me of 4 years ago, when my HS basketball team was in the State Final Four my Senior year. All I had ever cared about was that game and my instincts while playing it, and I thought that was enough. But when there were 14 seconds left and we were down by 2, I passed up a baseline 3 to feed my favorite big-man target inside to send the game to OT. My instincts screamed that it was the right move, right until he slammed the dunk against the back of the rim and I watched my dream of 18 years bounce towards the other baseline.

I blamed him for sooooo long, but I should have hit that game winner from the corner. Self Reliance is crucial in demanding situations. But let me clarify that I am not comparing a game to combat, by any means. I am just saying that it's important to trust yourself.