Go Back   Professional Soldiers > The Pipeline (Special Forces Training) > 18C

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

History of Tactical Breaching.
Old 06-05-2018, 14:48   #1
exsquid
Quiet Professional
 
exsquid is offline
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Lower Alabama
Posts: 541
History of Tactical Breaching.

Since I am retired now I am working on a little research project. I am trying find some historical context for modern CQB breaching. Looking at all aspects; manual, mechanical, ballistic, thermal, and explosive. I realize that a lot of the manual and some of the mechanical and even explosive stuff originated in the firefighting/rescue world eg. Halligan tool, hydraulic spreaders, & the Jet-Axe. I assume that a lot of the other stuff came about with the ascendance of national level counter terrorist units like GSG 9, SFOD-D, & SAS Special Projects Teams in the 1970s but I am not positive.

I found the following quote in the Assault Breacher Course Manual put out by Fort Leonard Wood back in 2000, "During 1977, the first documented breaching tests were conducted by the Naval Explosive Ordnance Disposal Technology Division (NAVEODTECHDIV), Indian Head, Maryland. The test subject was “Rapid Entry Into Locked Buildings Using Explosive Devices.” This test was followed by a second test again conducted by the NAVEODTECHDIV in 1983. This test investigated the feasibility of using explosives to gain rapid entry into rooms containing improvised explosive devices (lED) and where hostages might be involved. The tests resulted in the collection, for the first time, of significant amounts of data concerning air-blast and cutting effectiveness of various forms of explosive charges contemplated for use in gaining rapid entry to rooms."

Any of you old timers have any historical input from our side of the house perhaps from Blue Light or SOT? Any information you can provide would be greatly appreciated. If anyone knows how to get in touch with Booger, that might be helpful too. Thanks.

x/S
__________________
If not us, than who?
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-05-2018, 16:14   #2
7624U
Quiet Professional
 
7624U's Avatar
 
7624U is offline
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Jasper Tennessee
Posts: 866
CSM Tabata, RIP, I could imagine would say NAVEOD learned everything from him. He was doing the shit before people started writing it down.
__________________
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it.

"Robert A. Heinlein"
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-05-2018, 17:18   #3
Flagg
Area Commander
 
Flagg is offline
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,200
The pre-WWII Shanghai(international settlement) Municipal Police(specifically the Reserve Unit) with the direct support of folks like Fairbairn/Applegate and collaborative sharing with folks like Carlson/Edson might be worth looking into.

It's my understanding that pre-WWII Shanghai was a quite "interesting" environment in terms of illicit networks and some of the earliest SWAT like lessons were learned there.

I know there's a lot of content out there about the unarmed/armed CQB/CQC side of things as well as riot control experience gained from pre-WWII Shanghai.

I'm assuming there might be a little bit around early iterations of mechanical breaching due to the extremely dense urban terrain and broad/deep illicit networks operating there.

Certainly not the modern and refined interpretation of breaching as we know it today or recently, but might be of some limited historical/contextual value.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-05-2018, 17:52   #4
The Reaper
Quiet Professional
 
The Reaper's Avatar
 
The Reaper is offline
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,384
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7624U View Post
He was doing the shit before people started writing
Fixed that for you.

ET was a genius.

SF had people (an SFOD-A, IIRC) at IHP doing targeting, vulnerabilities, and barrier penetration since the mid-80s and 90s at least, and publishing their results..

Great manuals.

TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2017
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2018, 08:03   #5
Peregrino
Quiet Professional
 
Peregrino's Avatar
 
Peregrino is offline
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Occupied Pineland
Posts: 4,598
I received my first explosive breaching class JAN 80 while attending SOT at the Mott Lake Compound. TTPs were both comprehensive and imaginative given what was available at the time. Tells me there were people doing it long before the cited Navy tests.
__________________
A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.

~ Marcus Tullius Cicero (42B.C)
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2018, 15:54   #6
Joker
Quiet Professional
 
Joker's Avatar
 
Joker is offline
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Tampa
Posts: 1,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrino View Post
I received my first explosive breaching class JAN 80 while attending SOT at the Mott Lake Compound. TTPs were both comprehensive and imaginative given what was available at the time. Tells me there were people doing it long before the cited Navy tests.
Ahhh, the days of the old High-Low Criss-Cross... showing our age...
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2018, 20:17   #7
MR2
Quiet Professional
 
MR2's Avatar
 
MR2 is offline
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 3,796
Are manhole platter charges out of vogue these days?
__________________
The two most powerful warriors are patience and time - Leo Tolstoy

It's Never Crowded Along the Extra Mile - Wayne Dyer


I've always thought America was Great. Wouldn't it just be Great if we made it America Again?
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-07-2018, 05:14   #8
miclo18d
Quiet Professional
 
miclo18d's Avatar
 
miclo18d is offline
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,459
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR2 View Post
Are manhole platter charges out of vogue these days?
I know for a fact that there were quite a few manhole covers missing around Ft Benning and Columbus, GA back in the late 80s. I cannot confirm or deny that the fun started to wear off trying to adhere that much C4 to the back of one of those damn things!

(All that work and it pretty much just vaporized it)

__________________
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." Jeff Cooper
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-07-2018, 05:27   #9
miclo18d
Quiet Professional
 
miclo18d's Avatar
 
miclo18d is offline
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,459
Quote:
Originally Posted by exsquid View Post
Since I am retired now I am working on a little research project. I am trying find some historical context for modern CQB breaching. Looking at all aspects; manual, mechanical, ballistic, thermal, and explosive. I realize that a lot of the manual and some of the mechanical and even explosive stuff ori use in gaining rapid entry to rooms."

x/S
Certainly I would forward this with ancient historical references to siege engines of the ancient world. I was always fascinated by the TTP/Counter TTP aspects of breaching and obstacle reduction. The approach to target analysis has been around for a long long time.
__________________
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." Jeff Cooper
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-07-2018, 06:26   #10
Golf1echo
Area Commander
 
Golf1echo's Avatar
 
Golf1echo is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Western Carolina in the rainforest,4000' along the Eastern Cont. Div.
Posts: 1,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by miclo18d View Post
I know for a fact that there were quite a few manhole covers missing around Ft Benning and Columbus, GA back in the late 80s. I cannot confirm or deny that the fun started to wear off trying to adhere that much C4 to the back of one of those damn things!

(All that work and it pretty much just vaporized it)

Well those will hide a British Minister's car up on the other side of the roof of a 5th story building...took a while to find it according to the version we got.

Interesting history, obstacles and breaching...
__________________
"It is because they have so much to give and give it so lavishly...that men love the mountains and go back to them again and again." Sir Francis Younghusband

Essayons

By Dand

"In the school of the wilds,there is no graduation day"Horace Kephart
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-08-2018, 22:49   #11
exsquid
Quiet Professional
 
exsquid is offline
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Lower Alabama
Posts: 541
Reaper:

I am not familiar with "IHP". Can you elaborate? PM is perfectly acceptable if more appropriate. Thanks.

x/S
__________________
If not us, than who?

Last edited by exsquid; 06-09-2018 at 22:10.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-09-2018, 10:32   #12
The Reaper
Quiet Professional
 
The Reaper's Avatar
 
The Reaper is offline
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,384
Quote:
Originally Posted by exsquid View Post
Reaper:

I am not familiar with "IHP". Can you elaborate? PM is perfectly acceptable if more appropriate. Thanks.

Michael
Sorry.

Indian Head Point.

TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2017
  Reply With Quote

Oil Industry
Old 06-28-2018, 06:01   #13
demodude
Quiet Professional
 
demodude's Avatar
 
demodude is offline
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Brunswick Ga
Posts: 21
Oil Industry

You may want to look at the oil industry. The majority of the really efficient linear charges where designed for clean cuts on high pressure oil pipelines. Then several with upgraded casings where adopted by NASA for cleanly separating fuel tanks from the space shuttle.
We taught a lot of it outside Hertford NC prior to 911. I use to help Jack and
Mitch, a couple of retired 18Cs that worked for DOE.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-28-2018, 11:34   #14
Team Sergeant
Quiet Professional
 
Team Sergeant's Avatar
 
Team Sergeant is offline
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 20,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR2 View Post
Are manhole platter charges out of vogue these days?
I remember that..... I also remember what a manhole cover weighs........... who the fook thought that was a good option ?
__________________
"The Spartans do not ask how many are the enemy, but where they are."
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-30-2018, 09:32   #15
exsquid
Quiet Professional
 
exsquid is offline
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Lower Alabama
Posts: 541
demodude:

I was able to find some history published by Ensign Bickford regarding their development of linear shaped charges in the late 1950s / early 1960s for use in the space program. When I went through the course at Hertford we didn't use any linear products but we did use some of the small explosive perforators used in the oil industry.

x/S
__________________
If not us, than who?
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:34.



Copyright 2004-2017 by Professional Soldiers
Site Designed, Maintained, & Hosted by Hilliker Technologies