South Carolina Governor wants to remove Confederate flag

[mojaveman]

Governor Nikki Haley is putting together a plan to remove the Confederate flag from the State House grounds.

Will that eventually include the Capitol and all other public offices?

I can understand why some groups would be offended with the reminder of the Confederacy but history happens. Maybe those who forget it really are doomed to repeat it.

I'm not a Southerner by birth nor did any of my ancestors come from that region. It does bother me a little though that there has been chatter among some others in power that ALL reminders of the Confederacy should be removed to include monuments to fallen soldiers as well as statues of Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee, etc.

As I said before, history happens. Some of these ideas seem a little radical to me.

http://www.wistv.com/story/29376648/...om-state-house

[PRB]

This comment may be unpopular but here it is.


The proper honors were rendered by Joshua Chamberlain to the soldiers and colors of the southern armies at Appomattox..


Why a Confederate battle flag flies in any official capacity, State or Fed property, is beyond me. As to memorials the State Flag of the soldiers should be displayed as they fought for Virginia, S Carolina etc...not some notion of a national entity that exists today and did not exist at that time.


Individual can do as they choose, as can any corporate entity.

This is solely about flying the Confederate battle Flag on Fed/State property...what ind. do is up to them.

[cbtengr]

Regardless of where the flag flies it is not the problem, it is as if you erase it and all the nations race woes will be over. The Confederate flag does not offend me, what offends me is how that symbol has been corrupted by certain groups and individuals.

[blacksmoke]

The flag belongs in a museums and history books. Why don't we fly the British flag? Oh because we kicked their asses out too.

[Streck-Fu]

[Richard]

Originally Posted by cbtengr

The Confederate flag does not offend me, what offends me is how that symbol has been corrupted by certain groups and individuals.

The flag in question is the CSA's "battle" flag, a symbol of their secession and waging war against US forces at places like Antietam, Gettysburg, etc, for maintaining a society based upon white supremacy and the perpetuation of slavery as a "right".

I'd be interested to hear an explanation of just how such a "symbol" could have been "corrupted" in its post-Civil War use by the likes of the White Liners, Red Shirts, Klansmen, the anti-Civil Rights movement, and others who profess the same ideas of racial superiority?

Richard

[Streck-Fu]

Originally Posted by Richard

The flag in question is the CSA's "battle" flag, a symbol of their secession and waging war against US forces at places like Antietam, Gettysburg, etc, for maintaining a society based upon white supremacy and the perpetuation of slavery as a "right".

I'd be interested to hear an explanation of just how such a "symbol" could have been "corrupted" in its post-Civil War use by the likes of the White Liners, Red Shirts, Klansmen, the anti-Civil Rights movement, and others who profess the same ideas of racial superiority?

Richard

At the same time, the American flag flew over the states of Missouri, Kentucky, West Virginia, and Maryland......

[Box]

If it was a state flag I'd probably think a little different.
It isn't.
The Confederate States of America sought to secede from the Union. A great civil war was fought. The Confederate Army lost that war.

I think its odd that there is a state government flying the flag of an Army that served as a force belligerent to the United States of America.

Americans would shit a gold brick if someone claimed that they were simply "celebrating their heritage" by flying a Rising Sun Flag at Pearl Harbor.

The "history and heritage" argument doesn't get my vote. If the USA was hopelessly tied to history in the form of a flag, the US Flag would still have 13 stars.

Lets remove race for a second...
What about the people that had family members that fought and died for the Union...
...REGARDLESS of what color their skin was?

What about THEIR family heritage?
...can't white people be offended by the confederate battle flag as well?


"The South will rise again" is a cute slogan; when they do, they can put up a new flag.
Until then, come to grips with the fact that YOU LOST, now take that shit down.

[BrokenSwitch]

Mississippi still keeps the CSA flag in its state flag.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Mississippi

Georgia is still proud of its part in the CSA:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_o...ia_(U.S._state)

[JJ_BPK]

Symbolism is often seen as THE cause,,
when it is only a symptom.

Taking cortisone shots treat the pain,,
but the arthritis is still there..

BTB,, Starts and Bars was the 1st "national" flag adapted by the CSA
While the Southern cross was a battle flag.
The CSA had several flags, both National & Battle.

[craigepo]

I could understand an argument to have the Confederate flag flying at a Confederate cemetery, or some of the civil war battlefields. It could, arguably, fit within the context at those locales.

However, anywhere else, the Confederate flag is a powerful reminder of a time when an entire race of people were treated as less than human simply because of the pigmentation of their skin.

This nation should be an exemplar for liberty both to ourselves and the rest of the world. That is hard to do with a Confederate flag flying.

[Streck-Fu]

Originally Posted by craigepo

I could understand an argument to have the Confederate flag flying at a Confederate cemetery, or some of the civil war battlefields. It could, arguably, fit within the context at those locales.

However, anywhere else, the Confederate flag is a powerful reminder of a time when an entire race of people were treated as less than human simply because of the pigmentation of their skin.

This nation should be an exemplar for liberty both to ourselves and the rest of the world. That is hard to do with a Confederate flag flying.

I agree with the idea that no government entity should fly any flag of the confederacy but the discussion should be honest.
This has next to nothing to due with white supremacy.
Lincoln, himself, was a white supremacist as were most people at the time, northern and southern.
While we should be an example of liberty for all, we must be open about our history and honest about how we got to where we are now. Altering and fabricating elements of history to make certain people seem more altruistic than they really were prevents honest discussion.

You can not hold up the federal government and union army as agents for positive social justice and reform for freeing the slaves when the same entities are guilty of genocide against the native American indians.

[PedOncoDoc]

Originally Posted by Richard

The flag in question is the CSA's "battle" flag, a symbol of their secession and waging war against US forces at places like Antietam, Gettysburg, etc, for maintaining a society based upon white supremacy and the perpetuation of slavery as a "right".

I'd be interested to hear an explanation of just how such a "symbol" could have been "corrupted" in its post-Civil War use by the likes of the White Liners, Red Shirts, Klansmen, the anti-Civil Rights movement, and others who profess the same ideas of racial superiority?

Richard

Do we also then demand removal of all confederate war/soldier memorials for the same logic?

[Roguish Lawyer]

This is all about censorship through BS liberal shame.

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by Streck-Fu

Entire post.

You are ignoring a complicated, ongoing discussion over Lincoln's views on race, slavery, and politics, and how they changed over time.*


__________________________________________________ ____
* John Sexton, "On Lincoln's Pragmatism," American Political Thought: A Journal of Ideas, Institutions, and Culture, vol. 2:1 (Spring 2013): 89-117, available here.