Daniel Shaver shooting, Murder by Coward

[bblhead672]

It hasn't helped that the former Czar of the United States Barry Soetoro promoted a war on cops that resulted in heightened levels of threat against them. Which put cops on a defensive footing that causes overreactions like this.

Still, no excuse for shooting the man until he clearly had a weapon in his hand. I read an article from AZ that a Mesa police training officer said that the shooting wasn't justified, that they teach recruits to not shoot until a weapon is being pointed at them.

I remember another event, in 2016 I think, where a police officer fired several shots with his rifle at an autistic boy sitting in the middle of a alley, the officers were yelling commands at him but he wasn't responding (duh, he's autistic) and the officer fired on him. Later, when asked why he pulled the trigger the officer's response was "I don't know."

This country's law enforcement community needs to dial back the aggressiveness and military tactics being used against the people. Yes, the police want to go home safely at the end of their shift. So do innocent tax-payers who pay the cops salaries.

The majority "good cops" we are constantly told about must enact a zero tolerance policy toward their "bad cop" co-workers and start restoring honor, respect and credibility to their profession. If not, they could end up down at the bottom of the list with Congress/politicians, the mainstream media and car salespeople.

[PedOncoDoc]

Originally Posted by bblhead672

The majority "good cops" we are constantly told about must enact a zero tolerance policy toward their "bad cop" co-workers and start restoring honor, respect and credibility to their profession. If not, they could end up down at the bottom of the list with Congress/politicians, the mainstream media and car salespeople.

If only we, as a country, could get back to holding each other accountable for our actions and stop being ashamed to acknowledge the messes in our own houses....

[Sohei]

Originally Posted by PedOncoDoc

If only we, as a country, could get back to holding each other accountable for our actions and stop being ashamed to acknowledge the messes in our own houses....

It takes true honor and integrity to admit when one's home needs cleaning.

And, it takes true effort to then clean the house.

No one will clean "your" house like yourself. If they can't admit their issues...the won't see the need for cleaning.

Unfortunately, LE, like everywhere else, personal responsibility is going by the wayside as a trait that should be highly desired.

[Team Sergeant]

You can't hire good cops and pay them shit.

You can lower the standards, hire idiots, pay them shit and call them cops.

Get used to it.

[Box]

...it doesn't help that the left makes it a point to praise unlawful or aberrant behavior as a general rule

[Streck-Fu]

At least that Sheepdog went home at night.

I wonder if Dave Grossman autographed his copy of On Killing....

[Five-O]

Bad Shoot. Sad and difficult to watch.

Reminded me somewhat of the Albuquerque NM shooting of a homeless man a few years ago.


Officers were called for a man with a rifle pointing it out a window of a hotel (responding officers must have thought Las Vegas...Mesa AZ isn't that far from there). So they are going into the call with that mentality I would ASSUME. Once in contact with the suspect they should have realized the situation for what it was. It is difficult for me to gauge the SGT giving verbal commands. At one moment he was very calm and collected, giving precise commands....the next he was screaming his head off at the suspect. That does not increase compliance and surely makes other officers a little more tense. The kid could not have been more compliant with verbal commands. He did not get all the commands 100% correct but he was compliant for sure. There is a difference. The suspect was completely compliant in every way just not correctly compliant. It is certainly not an exact science but....an experienced police officer should be able to asses in seconds, if he or she is dealing with a Yes person or a NO person. Based solely on this video this kid was a 100000% yes person.


The "You're fucked" etching on the officers dust cover is something an air softer would have, not a professional LEO. I question the officers chain of command for allowing it if they knew of it; and I question the leadership if they did not know about it. Some may find it has no relevance to this bad shooting but I would say it calls into question the officers mindset, maturity, sensibility and common sense. It is obviously a good thing he is no longer a police officer.

[Bleed Green]

I think that a good many of you made a ton of points about things that are so often overlooked in todays agencies. Pay, training and the recent climate set by the WH are all playing out. Training IMHO is the one factor that we have gone way overboard in neglecting. I think TS opined that when you had this guy on the ground was when you should have been cuffing him and I am totally in agreement with that. The way that this is trained these days is to make the suspect come closer to you and this is one example of what could go wrong with that because it is applied to every situation the same way with little to no regard about the intended purpose in doing this in the first place. The other thing that I disagree with in current training is the apathy regarding laying hands on people due to the emphasis placed on less than lethal tools being used today.

The one thing that was overlooked is the value of a good attorney. Michael Piccarreta has made a pretty good living at defending a lot of police that have been charged with everything from murder to drug smuggling and he is one of the best defense attorneys that I ever witnessed in the state. I am reasonably certain that one factor was probably enough to secure the verdict that was rendered.