Nation States vs Security Communities

[Jimbo]

MERCOSUR is not a security community (last I checked -1997 when I did an analysis of whether Chile should join MERCOSUR or NAFTA). The OAS charter allows for more of a secrity community than MERCOSUR does, IIRC.

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
The more they integrate, the less national identity there will be. If they go to a common currency, how long will it be before they go to a common language? they're already cutting religion out of everything.

OK, aren't they just transitioning to a larger nation-state if this all happens?

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Which is dominant in the US, the US or the states? Which was dominant before 1900?

Before 1900, clearly the states. Today, I don't know. I think the states have a greater influence on people's everyday lives, but people don't realize that and focus their political attention on the federal government. The communications revolution has a lot to do with that.

I think you are getting away from your thesis, which needs a defense.

[NousDefionsDoc]

OK, but the Mercosur member states are more important right now than Mercosur. It's just a fledgling trade union, not much more at this point.

I didn't say it was going to happen tomorrow.

Before 1900, clearly the states. Today, I don't know. I think the states have a greater influence on people's everyday lives, but people don't realize that and focus their political attention on the federal government. The communications revolution has a lot to do with that.

I look at it as the same. The US was made of up states, then a loose federation, then the states gave up more and more autonomy. We're not there yet, but "Today, I don't know" tells me we are moving down the path.

EU,

OK, aren't they just transitioning to a larger nation-state if this all happens?

Not to me, because they only have one thing in common and the only reason they are doing it is to combat the US dominance. Let's say the Basques get a homeland. The Spanish and phrench have already shown they won't fight for long if it gets really bad. Will the EU let them in? Will the EU let everybody with contiguous borders with EU states in? or will they only let in those that share their common economic, political and military goals? What if we had left Texas out of the Union because they don't share the rest of the US' security concerns?

Wanna bet Canada ends up in the EU?

[NousDefionsDoc]

Originally posted by lrd
I was trying to find "official" definitions of nation and state, and came across this definition of nation:
How are we defining nation and state (at least for this discussion)?

Sorry, I just saw it.

Nation-states = countries

Security communities = groups with common interests, especially security (both economic and military) that transcend traditional or established boundaries.

Agreed?

[ktek01]

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Not elsewhere? What do you think the EU is?

The new Warsaw Pact, could call them the "Paris Pact" or "Socialist Block" states.

[NousDefionsDoc]

The European Union of Socialist Republics

EUSR

[ktek01]

That works too.

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
The more they integrate, the less national identity there will be. If they go to a common currency, how long will it be before they go to a common language? they're already cutting religion out of everything.

Which is dominant in the US, the US or the states? Which was dominant before 1900?

You'd be better off using 1865 or 1870. Before the Civil War, the US was truly a "United States" with citizens thinking of themselves as New Yorkers, Virginians, Yankees, Georgians etc.

So, are you suggesting a regression?

[CommoGeek]

Originally posted by Greenhat
You'd be better off using 1865 or 1870. Before the Civil War, the US was truly a "United States" with citizens thinking of themselves as New Yorkers, Virginians, Yankees, Georgians etc.

So, are you suggesting a regression?

I don't see us regressing to States, but along ethnic or social lines(race or money). MAYBE politics, but I'd bet on the first two.

Would I want that to happen? No, but I see that it is possible which is why I started the thread awhile back about a civil war in America.

[Solid]

It seems to me that at least in the most-developed nations, the common goal is economic. Would it follow that as the other nations develop, their goals will be economic too, thereby leading to the "economic-bloc as nation" circumstance predicted by certain Globalists?

Solid