GOP and self immolation

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

At what point do we rank and file voters take responsibility for the past sixteen years?

Collectively, we did not press Bush the Younger on his definition of victory in the war on terror, how the war would be financed, nor how it would be fought. We did not rise to the challenge of universal health care by presenting viable alternatives consistent with the party's ideology in a timely manner (e.g tort reform, cutting FDA red tape, transparent billing) . We have not addressed two significant causes of political gridlock in Washington D.C. (redistricting and campaign finance). We have not figured out how to frame our ideology and policy preferences in ways that resonate in a changing demographic environment.

Instead, we've become increasingly focused on painting with broad brushes, saying "no" without offering alternatives, and mocking profanely anyone and everyone who doesn't agree with us. We lament the degradation of American values but tolerate venomous slurs and memes if they're used to describe public figures and private citizens we don't like.

Historically, the GOP has always had a liberal wing and a conservative wing.* Trump is destroying the latter by allowing its critics and detractors to paint it with the broad brush of nativism. Trump saps the intellectual credibility of conservative Republicans because he embodies the kind of cynical opportunism that has been previously attributed to the likes of Al Sharpton, the sitting president, and Mrs. Clinton. He practices a brand of politics that is the exact opposite of what the framers thought ideal.

The company for which I work (Republican to its core) will benefit greatly from a Trump administration focused on urban development. But if you're a conservative who lives in a rural area, how are you going to feel about collaborative efforts between the private sector and the federal government that punish economically those who prefer not to live in cities and want to drive the cars they own?

Trump's focus on greatness for its own sake will result in a grand strategy reminiscent of Spain in the late 1800s.

My $0.02.

That is interesting.

What immediately caught my eye was your coment about the 'Brand of Politics' Trump is using and how it has in the past been associated with the radical dems. It is interesting because back in 2008 shortly after the election of Obama many on the Republican side said they needed to start fighting back, fighting back using the same tactics that the Dems use.

People like Andrew Breitbart, Matt Drudge and Pat Dollard jumped on the band wagon with high rollers in the Republican community, they even talked about it on their BlogTalk radio programs. The first shot across the bow I can remember was the ACORN shell game. Pat Dollard personally told me that he flew to Texas to discuss this strategy of beating the Dems at their own game.


Looks like to some degree they may have accomplished their goal.

[Surf n Turf]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

Still digesting the bulk of your post............... but

Trump's focus on greatness for its own sake will result in a grand strategy reminiscent of Spain in the late 1800s.

Mom warned me not to step on superman's cape, not to play poker with a guy named "Doc", and not to argue history with a Phd History grad........ But I believe your analogy of Spain the in the 1800's and the United States in 2016 in not a cogent argument.

1. For part of the period of the 1800's Spain was under the control of a Foreign Government (France). America has been independent since it's inception (It was in all the papers, you must have read about it)

2. The French Revolution (which impacted thinking in Spain) was bloodbath of an order not seen in the civilized west before. The shear horror of the events was greater than our Civil War .

It may be that you are too young to remember the Malaise and the "StagFlation" of the Carter years, which in some ways reminds me of today in America. That period ended, and we elected a new President, who was such a gifted man he was able to lift the nation out of this pit. I believe his greatest accomplishment was making American's Proud of their country, once again.

Most American senior government officials seem to care more for the various "unwashed" of the world than they do for their own citizens. I do not see a Nationalistic America, but I do wish we would mind our own business, and take care of our own.

We don't, as a rule, have "nationalistic" leaders. We are not colonialists, but many wish we would heed Washington's warning about "Foreign Entanglements

SnT

[Box]

...I am sticking with my previous statements that liberals cause diarrhea

[Patrin]

Originally Posted by Surf n Turf

1. For part of the period of the 1800's Spain was under the control of a Foreign Government (France). America has been independent since it's inception (It was in all the papers, you must have read about it)

2. The French Revolution (which impacted thinking in Spain) was bloodbath of an order not seen in the civilized west before. The shear horror of the events was greater than our Civil War .

SnT

...right'o SnT...and if I may...Sigaba's quoted statement falls even further from it's mark using Spain...or the French...as the comparative example, as both were 'un-constrained' or 'jail-bird' leftist revolutions...before Marx put their madness onto paper.

Both were heavily influenced by the writings of the Swiss philosopher, Rousseau, who believed that claims to property and ownership were the source of all human conflict and that every man or woman is born a virtuous creature.

Both revolutions set up their respective "Committees of Public Safety" and set about seizing property, murdering the aristocracy, the priests, the merchants and ordinary citizens based on disloyalty to La Révolution.

Does any of that sound like the many socialist / communist death camps of the 20th century?

No, Trump and his supporters are not unlike those of our Founding Father's time, representing the 'constrained' forces of revolution.

Sowell writes extensively on the constrained vision: primitive man lived a life doomed, in the words of Thomas Hobbes, to be “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short.” It was largely this pessimistic view of mankind as having inherent, irredeemable flaws that so greatly influenced the founders of the American Revolution, and that political vision became coupled with the equally constrained economic views of Adam Smith, who saw common good coming from what is essentially selfish individual pursuits. "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest,” wrote Smith. “We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages”

The rest is history...as the FF's, and the 1/3 of colonies that supported them, fired the 'shot heard round the world' to be free.

...and rather than use the Guillotine, they set about establishing an economic system based on self-determination, a system of justice though trial by jury, and both with the aim of protecting society from the aforementioned defects that turns order into chaos.

Trump, and those of us that support him, are seeking the re-establishment of that order from the chaos the left (Rousseau and Marx) have wrought upon our Nation.

Thus, there is no "cogent" argument to be made, comparing the Trump movement to early 19th Century Spain (or the cursed French).

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by Surf n Turf

But I believe your analogy of Spain the in the 1800's and the United States in 2016 in not a cogent argument.

I had in mind the process through which Spain concluded its honor was at stake when it decided to fight a war against the United States.

The process was driven more by considerations of domestic politics than sober conversations about interests, ends, and means.

The source of this POV is John L. Offner, An Unwanted War: The Diplomacy of the United States and Spain Over Cuba, 1895-1898 (1992)

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

I had in mind the process through which Spain concluded its honor was at stake when it decided to fight a war against the United States.

The process was driven more by considerations of domestic politics than sober conversations about interests, ends, and means.

[/URL]

We talking about the same Spain that is currently going belly -up because of it's inability to act responsibility as a sovereign nation?

2016 and Spain cannot govern itself. Where's the honor in that?


http://www.wsj.com/articles/spains-k...-26-1462269662