Old 06-13-2004, 07:34   #46
optactical
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Velcro=noisy

zippers=prone to failure

50/50=I grew up with it, but when issued 100% cottons for Ranger school I swore someone (a REMF gear guru of sorts) who drives a desk drove that replacement decision.

Marpat Uniform=great idea, but it is winter weight, anyone here ever patrol in a rainy environment with winters on? Bad idea. It's like the Marines had the perfect concept up till it left for the manufacturer and they let them choose the fabric. Plus that velcro on the tops NEEDS to disappear, who the fuck thought of that?

Shirt tucking in=I'm 67" tall, I wear a ML top, I have never had tuck in problems. People who have blind faith in BDU sizing charts have these problems, if they realized your top doesn't fit you right if you extend your arms and your sleeves aren't to your wrists, then they wouldn't even have had to mention this. Faith in your equipment is one thing when it comes to a chute someone packed, but a little personal initiative in Clothing Sales can alleviate this idiocy. Try on your clothes before you buy them, and do it properly.

Sterile Uniform=maybe I have been gone from the Regular Army for too long, but aren't BDUs with all the bells and whistles sewn on just for opening and closing ceremonies downrange, changes of command and shitbird REMFs who want everyone to know they went to Air Assault School?
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Old 06-13-2004, 09:54   #47
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In the late 70s and early 80s, the Army had the best uniforms they have ever had...

The Class B uniform was the TW, and that was a good looking and comfortable uniform, ideal for garrison (non-training or motor pool) wear.

There were still OG-107s and the various versions of the Camouflage Jungle fatiques around... they couldn't be beat in hot weather.

And the field pants and wool shirts were still around for wear in cold weather.


Seems to me that there are a whole bunch of very smart suggestions on this board.

One, Velcro is a no-go. Two, zippers are a no-go. If buttons are a problem, then some other closure system needs to be provided.

Combat uniforms need minimum identifying marks. Name and US Army are required by the conventions. The US Flag may be useful. Rank may be needed in some units. That's it.

Suspenders (braces) make sense, and we should be using them. We should also be using a "rigger" belt as standard issue.

The Jungles were the best designed uniform we have had (no great surprise, they were a modification of the jump uniform of WWII designed by Yarborough). Color modification probably makes sense (why not place rank on a tab in the front of the uniform, just like the Gore-tex jacket?). Shoulder pockets definitely make sense (return to the slant pockets of the Yarborough design eliminates the issues about getting into the pockets under body armor).

Different weight and design uniforms are needed for different climates. That is a simple fact. No uniform is going to work in the jungles of Panama, the mountains of Afghanistan and the snows of Norway.
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Old 06-13-2004, 10:14   #48
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I couldn't agree more Green Hat. Actually I thought the Class "A" and Class "B" khaki uniforms with bloused boots were the best looking. The problem was they looked like shit as soon as the starch broke down, thus making the TW more practical.

BTW: Can you get me a set of Thai Wings and foureger (spelling)?
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Old 06-13-2004, 10:23   #49
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Know what's funny? All they have to do is check what the troops are doing to their uniforms after a year in each AO to see what they need. The SP/4 mafia and Spec Ops guys fix their own kit and it works.

I agree about the suspenders, I just ordered a set from HSGI because the Eggroll med leg panels was pulling my pants down. picking them up this PM.
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Old 06-13-2004, 18:17   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by QRQ 30
I couldn't agree more Green Hat. Actually I thought the Class "A" and Class "B" khaki uniforms with bloused boots were the best looking. The problem was they looked like shit as soon as the starch broke down, thus making the TW more practical.

BTW: Can you get me a set of Thai Wings and foureger (spelling)?
Which set of wings? The "chang" wings (since you mentioned the fouragar, I assume that is the appropriate set)?

I'll have to check, but I would think I can get them up in Lopburi.
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Old 06-13-2004, 18:27   #51
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Thai wings:
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Old 06-13-2004, 21:39   #52
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I can get you a set very easily, I work every day with about 150 dudes who have been awarded them. PM me some info and I'll see what I can do in the meantime.

Now back to your unrelated thread....
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Old 06-14-2004, 00:17   #53
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Originally posted by Team Sergeant
Thai wings:
TS,

You do realize that the Thais have a pretty extensive collection of different jump wings, don't you?
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Old 06-14-2004, 00:20   #54
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Old 06-14-2004, 00:26   #55
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Old 06-14-2004, 04:46   #56
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TS displayed the type I had. CRS if there was a Master version. The Foureger had three or four elephant heads atr the end. I have oprders, but I don't think it specifies the type of wings. Are they pculiar th the RTSF?
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Old 06-14-2004, 05:19   #57
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TS displayed the type I had. CRS if there was a Master version. The Foureger had three or four elephant heads atr the end. I have oprders, but I don't think it specifies the type of wings. Are they pculiar th the RTSF?
The cord is only for master "Erawan" (the three-headed elephant) wings, I think. I'll check. Anyway, I (or Jim) should be able to pick a set up next time we're in Lopburi.
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Old 06-14-2004, 07:15   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by Greenhat
TS,

You do realize that the Thais have a pretty extensive collection of different jump wings, don't you?
GH
They may have, but the ones I posted are the only ones I have seen active duty USSF wearing on their uniforms.

TS
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Old 06-14-2004, 07:42   #59
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I believe they may be RTASF Wings. My orders are from the Thai SWC and signed by Gen Tien Chai himself -- counterpart to Gen Yarborough. They included the foureger. a I also have DA authorization to wear them I also have Laotian wings but never got them approved by DA. You can only wear one foreign badge and the Thai Wings are the purtiest.

Quote:
Originally posted by Team Sergeant
GH
They may have, but the ones I posted are the only ones I have seen active duty USSF wearing on their uniforms.

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Old 06-14-2004, 10:07   #60
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Here's an article and the image.

Army gets new combat uniform
By Sgt. 1st Class Marcia Triggs
June 14, 2004

WASHINGTON (Army News Service, June 14, 2004) - The Army will be fielding a new combat uniform designed by NCOs and tested by Stryker Brigade Soldiers in Iraq since October.

On the Army's 229th birthday, senior leadership introduced the Army Combat Uniform during a Pentagon cake-cutting ceremony. Soldiers were on display, suited-up in the wrinkle-free uniform with a digitized camouflage pattern.

Three different versions of the ACU have been developed, and more than 10,000 uniforms have been produced and dragged through the sand in Iraq and at Army training centers. Even more are on American production lines to be issued by April 2005 to Soldiers in deploying units. Fielding to the total Army should be complete by December 2007, said officials from the Program Executive Office, known as PEO Soldier.

There were 20 changes made to the uniform, to include removing the color black and adapting the digital print from the Marine Corps uniform to meet the needs of the Army, said Sgt. 1st Class Jeff Myhre, the Clothing and Individual Equipment noncommissioned officer in charge.

Black is no longer useful on the uniform because it is not a color commonly found in nature. The drawback to black is that its color immediately catches the eye, he added.

"The color scheme in the ACU capitalizes on the environments that we operate in," Myhre said. "The current colors on the ACU are green-woodland, grey-urban environments and sand brown-desert. The pattern is not a 100-percent solution in every environment, but a good solution across the board."

"This isn't about a cosmetic redesign of the uniform," said Col. John Norwood, the project manager for Clothing and Individual Equipment. "It's a functionality change of the uniform that will improve the ability of Soldiers to execute their combat mission."

Every change was made for a reason. The bottom pockets on the jacket were removed and placed on the shoulder sleeves so Soldiers can have access to them while wearing body armor. The pockets were also tilted forward so that they are easily accessible. Buttons were replaced with zippers that open from the top and bottom to provide comfort while wearing armor.

Patches and tabs are affixed to the uniform with Velcro to give the wearer more flexibility and to save the Soldier money, Myhre said. Soldiers can take the name-tapes and patches off their uniforms before laundering, which will add to the lifecycle of the patches. Also the cost to get patches sewn on will be eliminated, he added.

The ACU will consist of a jacket, trousers, moisture wicking t-shirt and the brown combat boots. It will replace both versions of the BDU and the desert camouflage uniform. The black beret will be the normal headgear for the ACU, but there is a matching patrol cap to be worn at the commander's discretion.

At $88 per uniform, about $30 more than the BDU, Soldiers will eventually reap gains in money and time by not having to take uniforms to the cleaners or shine boots.

The life of the ACU began in January 2003 when PEO Soldier teamed with Myhre, Master Sgt. Alex Samoba and Staff Sgt. Matt Goodine - from the 1st Stryker Brigade, Fort Lewis, Wash.

The team looked at a number of uniforms and took the best part of each uniform and combined it into one. They built their first prototype and delivered 25 uniforms to Stryker squads at the National Training Center. After listening to their comments, the team went back to the lab and created prototype two.

Twenty-one uniforms were then delivered to Stryker Soldiers at the Joint Training and Readiness Center, Fort Polk, La.

"We watched them as they entered and cleared rooms, as they carried their rucksack and all of the things they had to be able to do in the uniform, and then we came up with prototype three," Myhre said.

Two issues of the third version were given to the Stryker Soldiers deploying to Iraq. Three months ago, Myhre was among a team who visited Iraq to get more feedback from Soldiers.

"We would talk to Soldiers right after they had completed a mission while the benefits of the uniform were still fresh in their minds. We wanted to know how did the uniform help the mission."

Sgt. Maj. of the Army Kenneth Preston is one of the ACU's biggest supporters. He said major command sergeants major had a chance to see the uniform and give advice toward the final version.

"We have not made a major change to our uniforms since the BDUs (battle dress uniforms) were introduced in the early 1980s," Preston said. "This new uniform performs well in multiple environments. Its new pockets and color designs are a result of feedback from Soldiers in combat. Every modification made on the uniform was designed with a specific purpose and not just for the sake of change."

Uniform changes include:

1. Mandarin collar that can be worn up or down

2. Rank insignia centered on the front of the blouse

3. Velcro for wearing unit patch, skill tabs and recognition devices

4. Zippered front closure

5. Elbow pouch for internal elbow pad inserts

6. Knee pouch for internal knee pad inserts

7. Draw string leg cuff

8. Tilted chest pockets with Velcro closure

9. Three-slot pen pocket on bottom of sleeve

10. Velcro sleeve cuff closure

11. Shoulder pockets with Velcro

12. Forward tilted cargo pockets

13. Integrated blouse bellows for increased upper body mobility

14. Integrated Friend or Foe Identification Square on both left and right shoulder pocket flap.

15. Bellowed calf storage pocket on left and right leg

16. Moisture-wicking desert tan t-shirt

17. Patrol Cap with double thick bill and internal pocket

18. Improved hot-weather desert boot or temperate-weather desert boot

19. Two-inch, black nylon web belt

20. Moisture-wicking socks
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