Florida High School Shooting...Should we talk about it yet?

[Ret10Echo]

Children killing children... How is this a firearms problem?

We're scared to face the reality that our society is morally failed.

ODNT - let's be thankful that kids like this are ignorant of how to do real damage.

I won't provide a primer on how to do so in an open forum.

[bblhead672]

Another sad day in Texas. A friend had relative who was going into Santa Fe High School this morning to substitute teach for the day, she was one of the first killed.

Apparently this kid said he believes in evil. Must be first hand experience.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Originally Posted by bblhead672

Another sad day in Texas. A friend had relative who was going into Santa Fe High School this morning to substitute teach for the day, she was one of the first killed.

Apparently this kid said he believes in evil. Must be first hand experience.

So sad to hear of this from you. It’s alwas more tragic when you are connected to the event. Pass on my condolences to your friend and their families.

[rsdengler]

So sad, condolences to those families who lost loved ones..

Yes, it is become a "failed society", people kill people and it is a cultural problem which we all need to realize. They never say it was a "car" that killed someone when a drunk driver is behind the wheel; but they won't come out and say that "it is a issue with our youth as a whole" today. That is what we should be looking at, the root problem. We should take responsibility for our kids actions, supervise their daily activities, as well as communicate with them like my parents did way back when. Today we have lost the ability to dig deep into the underlying causes that bring about this type of behavior. It's a culture of wayward children and the parents/mentors/teachers that continuously ignore the signs.

[TOMAHAWK9521]

Originally Posted by rsdengler

So sad, condolences to those families who lost loved ones..

Yes, it is become a "failed society", people kill people and it is a cultural problem which we all need to realize. They never say it was a "car" that killed someone.

You are more right about that than you know. A few months back, over at Ohio State Univ., some guy, who was apparently trying to get to the Aloha Snackbar before it closed, decided to steer his car into student pedestrians and then jumped out with a knife to spread further mayhem on his way to the door. What has the first thing the left screamed for? Gun control.

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by rsdengler

So sad, condolences to those families who lost loved ones..

Yes, it is become a "failed society", people kill people and it is a cultural problem which we all need to realize. They never say it was a "car" that killed someone when a drunk driver is behind the wheel; but they won't come out and say that "it is a issue with our youth as a whole" today. That is what we should be looking at, the root problem. We should take responsibility for our kids actions, supervise their daily activities, as well as communicate with them like my parents did way back when. Today we have lost the ability to dig deep into the underlying causes that bring about this type of behavior. It's a culture of wayward children and the parents/mentors/teachers that continuously ignore the signs.

My feelings are that SSRI drugs, school policy regarding bad kids and the pussification of teachers and school administrators plays a big part in these incidents.

In many ways the trouble making students actually have more rights than the majority of the student body. If students attempt to protect themselves during an altercation with a trouble maker they will receive equal punishment, its like a 'No Fault' insurance for schools to avoid law suits. And at the same time we are told the trouble makers deserve an education and another chance as they continually disrupt the learning environment.

Loren D. Pendergrass, a name that will be etched in my memory until the day I die. He was my grade school principal, he was the judge, the jury and he wielded the 'Board of Education'. These days a Principle is a salaried bureaucrat, more blow than go PR person, who spews the party fluff pieces on Drugs and Bullying. And the Bullying PSA's have a theme of don't take matters into your own hands, come talk to us, when you see something, say something, we are here to help and we will protect you......a bunch of kumbaya to acquiesce students and parents into a false since of security and become sheeple.

No more are there social studies teachers like Norm Dawson, a Navy vet, a Titan II tech, Communist hater and bad ass. Mr. Dawson read one paragraph from the 'approved' education material and deemed it 'Communist Propaganda'. He got everyone's attention by throwing the book into the back wall and the class went off script for the remainder the year. Norm wouldn't put up with anyones crap. There was one day when a student named Mack was sleeping and Mr. Dawson called on him. Mack raised his head and said 'F-You', Mr Dawson replied 'What Did You Say', Mack replied 'F-YOU'..............Mr. Dawson proceeded to yank Mack out of his chair, drag him into the hall and then we heard Mack being slammed against the hall lockers! LOLOLOLOL! Mr. Dawson calmly walked back into the class and said We're did we leave off. In todays world Mr. Dawson would be ostracized by the education community for his feelings on Communism, and he would be fired, and the school district sued for his actions against a disruptive pot head named mack. However if Mr. Dawson embraced Communist Propaganda and bullied Christian students he would be welcomed with open arms by academia.


And if we prescribe meds to kids who are disenchanted with school, or prescribe meds to kids to make them more the norm everything will be Smiling Shining Faces...............

[Paslode]

*DUP*

[Old Dog New Trick]

^^^I’m not so sure that in our time of tough love and strict teachers in school is what prevented us from killing our fellow students. We just didn’t think anything in our lives were so bad that killing our classmates was the solution.

While I do agree that RRSI meds, violent video games and movies, a lack of religious beliefs, and the general decline in social acceptance of others (which has been replaced with mandatory acceptance of all things and people), and many other well discussed issues...I think “failed society” sums up the problem well.

The first rule of fight club is you don’t talk about fight club (yes I know it’s a movie clique about a violent movie.) I think that would be a good start when we as a society talk about school shootings and kids killing kids. First the media has to stop turning these murderers into rock stars. Second the media has to stop saturation broadcast in the immediate aftermath. There will be time to discuss for the world to see our failures. (Note: it should take all of about five minutes of news time to cover all the news worthy points. While not mentioning the murderer by name. ETA: the naming of the suspect will come out without the help of the media, secondly it can come out at trial or death certificate.)

The irresponsible media has perpetuated this since Columbine. This is where the first change has to begin.

The second idea I’ve heard is building every new police station or sub-station on the campus of every new high school. Shift change corresponds with the beginning and end of the school day when applicable. It’s amazing that in today’s dangerous world with school shootings and violence on the rise that high value people like governors and presidents and their families are protected by numerous armed guards but we send hundreds of thousands of our own children to a school building protected by one or two armed officers.

We need to address the gorilla in the room and it’s not the tool being used.

[frostfire]

[QUOTE=Ret10Echo;643331

We're scared to face the reality that our society is morally failed.


.[/QUOTE]

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
http://johnadamscenter.com/why-john-adams/

Thus, I see more of these incidents occurring and/or the shifting of the government towards a system that can “control” such incident from occurring. Trying hard to find a silver lining here.

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by frostfire

Thus, I see more of these incidents occurring and/or the shifting of the government towards a system that can “control” such incident from occurring. Trying hard to find a silver lining here.

The bureaucrats and social engineers never control the problems, they typically make them worse.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2018...faster-london/

[Badger52]

Originally Posted by Paslode

The bureaucrats and social engineers never control the problems, they typically make them worse.

This. The powers that be (who have grown themselves ever larger) foster the hands-off approaches by both teachers & parents (who lack confidence in their own sense of right/wrong). There is something to be said for the "settling" of matters socially on the playground during recess or behind the gym, and letting the boo-boos occur as they will. Win/lose/fought to a draw, matter settled. "Oh, that hurts. Oh, so that's what serious blood looks like."

The Beaver didn't "borrow" Dad's shotgun & take it to school because he was tired of tired of being picked on by Eddie Haskell. I say that not as a retro-longing per se but I do not recall this shit happening 50-60 yrs ago.

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by Badger52

This. The powers that be (who have grown themselves ever larger) foster the hands-off approaches by both teachers & parents (who lack confidence in their own sense of right/wrong). There is something to be said for the "settling" of matters socially on the playground during recess or behind the gym, and letting the boo-boos occur as they will. Win/lose/fought to a draw, matter settled. "Oh, that hurts. Oh, so that's what serious blood looks like."

The Beaver didn't "borrow" Dad's shotgun & take it to school because he was tired of tired of being picked on by Eddie Haskell. I say that not as a retro-longing per se but I do not recall this shit happening 50-60 yrs ago.

Around 1978 a classmate named Timmon's blew up the stop sign in front of the school with a pipe bomb. It wasn't 10 minutes and Mr. Timmon's was called to the office and escorted out of the building by local police and some guys in suits. We didn't see him for awhile. Sometime later, a year or two I believe, 2 pipe bombs were found in the local grade school and Mr. Timmon's was once again arrested and was never heard from again. So stuff happened, it just wasn't front page news and the scale of carnage wasn't what we see these days.

Today my pranks would be front page news if I blew up that lawn mower engine in shop class, caused that school evacuation after popping a signal smoke and filling the lower floor with thick smoke or I hung a mannequin from a ceiling light fixture with a noose in Art Class. Back in the day I caught serious hell at home and I did some time in ISS, but these days there is a good chance parents would show up to school with an attorney in defense of their child......if I had been thrown in jail my parents would have let me sit in jail for awhile.

Many things that were common place when I was in school like calling each other queer, faggot, homo, morphidite, etc., saying to someone that 'Your Moms your Dad' are now days met with serious consequences. Pushing and shoving now have serious consequences. So there is this hyper-vigilance over some pretty petty things, the school essentially tries to appease all sides, they arbitrate between the parties, but nothing is solved and the parties are left with underling feeling of an uneasy peace.

Today my pranks would not be tolerated even a single time. Name calling and unacceptable behavior would have me in ISS upon the first violation. But today, despite all the new rules, regulations, surveillance, security, and social standards there seem to be more Mr. Timmon's roaming the halls than ever.....



Fostering the hands-off approach, has become fear of consequences, like losing my job and ending up the top story on 5 o'clock news. Thus we kick the can down the road to people like Sheriff Israel to 'protect and serve' the communities and the bureaucrats like Robert Runcie who will come up with a new panel of bureaucrats to come up with new guidelines and new programs to address the problem..........and little if anything gets nipped in the bud, the can gets kicked down the road a little further until the next incident.

50-60 years ago it would have been far more likely that 'the Community' would take care of the matter, if it wasn't taken care of. Back then, clowns like Sheriff Israel, Runcie or punks like those's in Ferguson had a much better chance of getting Skidmored. 70-80 years ago my G-Grandfather shot and killed a man over some horse collars, and he never served a day in prison. Prior that it wasn't uncommon to for the community to chase down criminals with hounds, tree the perp and then serve out justice.


Seems to me we are headed backwards.

[GratefulCitizen]

Violence in young men is often a quest for social status (even if it is posthumous).
As an example, the Gini coefficient is very effective at predicting male violence, regardless of absolute levels of wealth.

My father was a career public school teacher and observed something interesting about today's schools, and the culture in general.
It's not acceptable to be a "C" student, or to just be an "average" person.

You're either top dog, or nobody.
Achieving high status wasn't always the same thing as avoiding low status.

The two ideas are conflated now.
High status is a positional good, and is by definition scarce.

From the perspective of a young man who hasn't fully developed his emotional muturity, he has little or nothing to lose.
Natural consequences of "everybody's a winner" and participation trophies.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Received from my kids school today.

Xxxxxxxxxx ISD continues to review and revise our safety protocols and procedures and will be implementing stricter measures for the remainder of the school year, including extra law enforcement personnel. Beginning tomorrow, please DO NOT send students to school with backpacks or bags. In addition, we ask that all students take off jackets/hoodies during arrival. We are implementing this new procedure across the entire district.

We realize this may be an inconvenience for students, staff, and parents, but we ask for your cooperation to help keep our students and schools safe. Our principals will be communicating this to students this afternoon before dismissal. Students who may not have received this message and who bring backpacks/bags to school will be required to leave them in the office and may pick them up at the end of the day.

We understand this change may be disruptive; therefore, we ask that parents and students communicate with us if you have any questions or concerns, and we will do our absolute best to address those as they arise. Please contact your child’s school if you have additional questions.

As a school community, we must all work together to face the new reality we have been given. We will continue to review all safety measures for the remainder of the year and over the summer and will continue to provide proactive communication. Our top priority continues to be the safety of our students, staff, and schools. If you have any information about threats to student safety, please share that through our anonymous Tip Line located on our app and website.

While it is a knee jerk reaction until the end of the school year (Little over a week away), I’m curious what long term plan they will come up with next year and during Winter.

I asked, lunch boxes and bags are okay...guess you can’t hide a shotgun in a sandwich bag.

[Ret10Echo]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

Received from my kids school today.





While it is a knee jerk reaction until the end of the school year (Little over a week away), I’m curious what long term plan they will come up with next year and during Winter.

I asked, lunch boxes and bags are okay...guess you can’t hide a shotgun in a sandwich bag.

Two words

Metal Detector

Textbook costs per year is something around $250 per student

Not to insult anyone's intelligence...let's do simple math.

School population of 1,700 x $250 per student = $425,000

Cost of a walk-through metal detector

(Crazy use of Google search: ) From Grainger = $4,238

Why is this so freaking complex?

Even factoring in the cost of the staffed security and electric power consumption.