LTC Vindman

[Trapper John]

While watching the choreographed soap opera that is the impeachment hearings I was concerned at the appearance of LTC Vindman in full uniform. This became especially concerning to me after listening to what he had to say. His personal story and family history was quite emotive. He related the story of how he was injured by an IED in Iraq, received the Purple Heart and was queried at length by one of the committee members about his CIB. By the end of the day it was clear to me he was used as a prop, a tool, and a rather dull one at that, to promote a political narrative. So my question is: how is it that a LTC in full uniform can be used in such a public and political fashion? IMHO LTC should be censured if not punished under UCMJ. YMMV Maybe it's just me, but I think this was a dishonor to the US Army!

[miclo18d]

Political kabuki

LTC Oliver North

ETA: I agree with you, but this is politics. All of their witnesses weren’t even on the call and none of them set policy. This is a “deep state” attack to stay inside DJT’s OODA loop. They have no plans to impeach, that would back fire badly. Their plan is to keep him on the ropes and make him “look” corrupt and inept.

To be honest, this campaign is something SF guys should employ with an insurgency! Making the govt look inept is a major part of a U-Dub campaign!

[Ret10Echo]

Originally Posted by miclo18d

Political kabuki

LTC Oliver North

ETA: I agree with you, but this is politics. All of their witnesses weren’t even on the call and none of them set policy. This is a “deep state” attack to stay inside DJT’s OODA loop. They have no plans to impeach, that would back fire badly. Their plan is to keep him on the ropes and make him “look” corrupt and inept.

To be honest, this campaign is something SF guys should employ with an insurgency! Making the govt look inept is a major part of a U-Dub campaign!

Perhaps combined with the last Dim-(so-called) "debate" where it was all love and hugs. Staged to create a more broad contrast to the characterization of the current Administration (??)

The old approach of "I don't have to be good, I just need to make you look bad"

[JJ_BPK]

Originally Posted by Trapper John

While watching the choreographed soap opera that is the impeachment hearings I was concerned at the appearance of LTC Vindman in full uniform. This became especially concerning to me after listening to what he had to say. His personal story and family history was quite emotive. He related the story of how he was injured by an IED in Iraq, received the Purple Heart and was queried at length by one of the committee members about his CIB. By the end of the day it was clear to me he was used as a prop, a tool, and a rather dull one at that, to promote a political narrative. So my question is: how is it that a LTC in full uniform can be used in such a public and political fashion? IMHO LTC should be censured if not punished under UCMJ. YMMV Maybe it's just me, but I think this was a dishonor to the US Army!

Correctly me if I'm off, but I thought that military personnel was prohibited from wearing their uniform when actively performing in a POLITICAL dialog or event?

[PSM]

Originally Posted by miclo18d

LTC Oliver North

True enough, but he was at the defense table, not the prosecutor's.

[SF_BHT]

Originally Posted by JJ_BPK

Correctly me if I'm off, but I thought that military personnel was prohibited from wearing their uniform when actively performing in a POLITICAL dialog or event?

You are if it is for personal reasons. You should wear it if your acting in an official manor. He was right to wear it in a hearing.

[Airbornelawyer]

Military officers assigned to the staff of the National Security Council do not wear their uniforms while performing in that function. LTC North was no longer assigned to the NSC staff when he testified at the Iran-Contra hearings, but was assigned somewhere in the Pentagon or Henderson Barracks (I can't remember exactly where).

[Trapper John]

Originally Posted by Airbornelawyer

Military officers assigned to the staff of the National Security Council do not wear their uniforms while performing in that function. LTC North was no longer assigned to the NSC staff when he testified at the Iran-Contra hearings, but was assigned somewhere in the Pentagon or Henderson Barracks (I can't remember exactly where).

I thought that was the case and even though Vindman was appearing under subpoena he should be wearing his duty uniform, a suit?? Shiff just wanted this circus choreographed and the military dress uniform played better for his purposes. Talk about politicizing tne military. And of course Vindman would play along being the POG that he is!

[scooter]

Originally Posted by Trapper John

I thought that was the case and even though Vindman was appearing under subpoena he should be wearing his duty uniform, a suit?? Shiff just wanted this circus choreographed and the military dress uniform played better for his purposes. Talk about politicizing tne military. And of course Vindman would play along being the POG that he is!

I have no way of knowing, but I imagine that the good LTC got some kind of rules of the road from DoD on dress, do’s and don’ts,etc. Seeing how the army has a two star in charge of congressional liaisons, I’d be super surprised if no one from that office gave him a talk before hand.....or after, seeing how things went.

[Sinister]

Originally Posted by JJ_BPK

Correctly me if I'm off, but I thought that military personnel was prohibited from wearing their uniform when actively performing in a POLITICAL dialog or event?

His every day duty uniform might be a suit, but if he's a military officer (a Foreign Area Officer working for the Defense Intelligence Agency -- a declared military intelligence collector) and I was the Chief of Staff of the Army I'd own his ass if he wasn't testifying before Congress in a uniform on a case of presidential impeachment -- especially if you are testifying for the government.

As a military officer on a detail or assignment he still works for somebody in a military chain-of-command.

[abc_123]

Originally Posted by Trapper John

I And of course Vindman would play along being the POG that he is!

I don't know his political leanings or his details. However, I do see a Infantry LTC with a Ranger Tab and a Purple Heart and CIB. POG? Maybe. Maybe not.

[Trapper John]

Originally Posted by abc_123

I don't know his political leanings or his details. However, I do see a Infantry LTC with a Ranger Tab and a Purple Heart and CIB. POG? Maybe. Maybe not.

I certainly did not mean to disparage his awards (especially purple heart & CIB). If anything I said was taken that way - please accept my sincerest apology.

Trapper John out!

[Trapper John]

Originally Posted by Sinister

His every day duty uniform might be a suit, but if he's a military officer (a Foreign Area Officer working for the Defense Intelligence Agency -- a declared military intelligence collector) and I was the Chief of Staff of the Army I'd own his ass if he wasn't testifying before Congress in a uniform on a case of presidential impeachment -- especially if you are testifying for the government.

As a military officer on a detail or assignment he still works for somebody in a military chain-of-command.

I have always been under the impression that AD military are to remain apolitical when acting in an official capacity. Haven't you just argued against that? Forgive me, I may be confused.

[Trapper John]

Originally Posted by Sinister

His every day duty uniform might be a suit, but if he's a military officer (a Foreign Area Officer working for the Defense Intelligence Agency -- a declared military intelligence collector) and I was the Chief of Staff of the Army I'd own his ass if he wasn't testifying before Congress in a uniform on a case of presidential impeachment -- especially if you are testifying for the government.

As a military officer on a detail or assignment he still works for somebody in a military chain-of-command.

As a military officer on a detail or assignment he still works for somebody in a military chain-of-command.[/QUOTE]

And this raises another question: When Vindman had "concerns" about the July 25 phone call, he reported his concerns outside of his CoC and went directly to legal council first.

This whole thing has become a "circus" and Vindman's appearance in dress uniform just casts the US Army as complicit and far from apolitical! IMHO this IS a problem and a BIG one at that! YMMV

[Remington Raidr]

Vindman, laboring in the trenches for years, knew that starting this shit would be his ticket to all the right parties, taking all the right pills, meeting all the right people, paying heavenly bills. You only get ONE shot at the brass ring. It's time to make the popcorn . . .