Survive! - Page 18

Golf1echo · 10-24-2013, 16:42

Am enjoying this thread! The Hickory tree roots can provide salt occording to literature but how are you going to get at them and how much value per effort?
I can remember a few times when salt seemed pretty darn valuable but didn't have any. It is important for electrolytes and can kill or suck out bad juju if necessary, not to mention curing and preservation.

therunningwolf · 10-24-2013, 19:40

I'd like to throw my thoughts out here for review or critique if you don't mind.

In this scenario we are staying put and awaiting rescue rather then actively finding our way out. In this case I wouldn't mind being a little tool heavy as I'm not going to be humping it to much and have time to set up a proper shelter rather then something quick that doesn't require many calories.

I generally keep a small pack with the following on me or in my truck:

Medium fixed blade
40 oz Klean Kanteen
USGI poncho
100 Feet paracord
Fire Steel
Sailing Needle
GSI Glacier cup
Fish mouth spreader
Bungee cord
4 metal tent stakes
2 55 Gallon drum liners
Small first aid kit
Small spice kit
Bic Lighter
Picture Hanging wire
PVC fishing kit
Sharpening stone
Foot kit (powder, mole skin, socks, etc)
Flashlights
Mirror

With winter coming up I add on the following:
Wool blanket
CS Trail Hawk
Jacket
Space blanket

For this scenario I wouldn't mind dropping the Poncho, bungee, tent stakes, and Hawk as well as dropping the pack for a small homemade shoulder sack and bumping up the amount of spices I would be taking. Then adding:

4 #110 traps
2 #220 traps
A axe
20 Feet of 8.5mm rope

This would have me living fairly comfortable, and while I could do with less, if I'm not humping it every day why live like I'm rucking 10 hours a day and counting every oz?

In truth the first 5 on my list are the only things I would consider absolutely necessary just because of how much a pain they are to create out in the sticks.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Thanks for taking the time to read this.

**The Reaper** · 10-25-2013, 20:21

Can we survive without a knife or axe?

Yes.

Do I want to try and survive without a blade, and try to fabricate field replacements?

No.

I feel the same way about friction fire starting.

I am okay down to the firesteel, and then I draw the line.

If I am rubbing two sticks together to make a fire, I hope at least one of them is a match.

Runningwolf, I think you are largely on the right track.

There is need to have, and there is want to have. I think you have drawn a good line.

If it was going to be cold, there was large game, or I was going to build a substantial shelter for a long stay, I would want the axe for sure. Not sure that the hawk is practical when I can have a hatchet or small axe for the same size and weight. They look cool though.

I might pass on the traps for some good snares.

The bungee cord and 550 make for great cordage that is hard to replicate, though it is good to know how to do it.

The space blanket is a good reflector and a passable rain shelter. It will not really keep you very warm.

TR

therunningwolf · 10-25-2013, 21:20

Reaper,

The Hawk is really a lack of knowledge choice. It's light and works OK for where I am. I'm not really taking any trees down when I go out, mostly saplings or splitting already felled logs, any farther South and I would be speaking with a Jamaican accent so freezing Winters aren't as big of a concern. The biggest thing with that choice, I know how to make a new handle for it if the current one breaks. At this time I don't know how to make a handle for an axe or hatchet. It's something I need to get around to learning, thanks for reminding me and thanks for your insight.

mugwump · 10-29-2013, 04:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broadsword2004

So I have thus far tried making stone tools and a bow drill for a fire...

.. but when I try to saw the stick back and forth, the cord fails to turn the drill. The cord moves, but it just slips. Maybe grass is the wrong cordage for this? (they make it look so easy in the videos!).

I can't imagine grass working, but maybe. Google up swamp milkweed. Perfect time of year for harvesting cordage fiber and easy to ID because of the seed pods. As implied by the name, look around ponds, streams, low spots. It's the spectra of the plant world. In summer, nettles. Google Egyptian bow drill to solve your slipping problem.

Barbarian · 10-29-2013, 16:18

Quote:

does the nettle give a rash though?

Not if you wear leather gloves while you process it.

mugwump · 10-29-2013, 19:49

Pretty much anywhere in the Ohio/Mississippi/Missouri watershed you can find deadwood cottonwood sticks and, depending in the time of year, either nettle or swamp milkweed for cordage (assuming you don't have paracord shoelaces). Jam two parallel cottonwood sticks between rocks, into the split of an old beaver-felled stump, or use cordage to tie each end together--you don't need to split out a flat fire board or do any of that notching nonsense. Use another short cottonwood stick for your spindle and something green for the bow. If you can find an old bottle cap for the top piece, you're golden. Pound the open end of the cap onto another short stick and put a dent in the middle to hold the top of the spindle. Twirl the spindle in the groove between the two sticks. You can get annoying amounts of smoke in 60 seconds or less. Without a bottle cap you have to improvise the top piece and it might take 90 secs.

mugwump · 10-29-2013, 19:57

Broadsword, iPad won't let me link but google "2-stick fireboard bowdrill"

Barbarian · 10-30-2013, 12:03

Quote:

That might pose a problem in a survival situation.

I have to think of pretty far-fetched scenario to come up with a survival situation in which I have access to neither gloves nor a better source of cordage than plant fiber.

Not trying to discourage you, or anything.

booker · 10-30-2013, 13:04

Dogbane (aka Indian hemp) is plentiful in most fields areas and is much stronger than grass or nettle. It is pretty common on the edges of active hay fields and in early successional field conversion areas (think power line cuts, old farm fields, etc). A thin strand is pretty strong, and a braided strand will hold a heck of a lot of weight.

Tulip poplar works well too, but you have to make it pretty thick to keep it from breaking under high stress use (i.e., bow drills).

I learned to do the bow drill with green wood, which doesn't really work, but gets the technique down, so when you use the proper type of wood it all comes together much faster.

booker · 10-30-2013, 13:17

Dogbane (aka Indian hemp) is plentiful in most fields areas and is much stronger than grass or nettle. It is pretty common on the edges of active hay fields and in early successional field conversion areas (think power line cuts, old farm fields, etc). A thin strand is pretty strong, and a braided strand will hold a heck of a lot of weight.

Tulip poplar works well too, but you have to make it pretty thick to keep it from breaking under high stress use (i.e., bow drills).

I learned to do the bow drill with green wood, which doesn't really work, but gets the technique down, so when you use the proper type of wood it all comes together much faster.

Barbarian · 10-31-2013, 06:20

Quote:

What makes you think plant fiber is inferior to the rope you buy in the store?

Nothing, other than the amount of time required to make it.

mugwump · 10-31-2013, 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by booker

Dogbane (aka Indian hemp) is plentiful in most fields areas and is much stronger than grass or nettle.

I agree grass is useless but dried nettle is at least as strong as dried dogbane. The problem with nettle is it's a total pain to get enough for a usable diameter--it dries to wispy little threads. But green nettle is great for hafting things; it shrinks up tight. My stepson's great-uncle (FBI Ojibwa) said the great strength of dried dogbane cordage is that it gets stronger when wet. They made their nets out of it back in the day for the spring walleye runs in WI/MN.

mugwump · 10-31-2013, 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barbarian

I have to think of pretty far-fetched scenario to come up with a survival situation in which I have access to neither gloves nor a better source of cordage than plant fiber.

Not trying to discourage you, or anything.

As far-fetched a scenario as going through Mr. Peabody's wayback machine and walking across 19th century N Am from sea to shining sea?

Ooh! I can think of a few scenarios!

I once spent 14 hours drifting in sharky waters west of Barbados waiting for someone to pick me and my buddy up after a dive. Does that count? Didn't have any gloves and didn't need any cordage, though. Could have used some water. And a hat--got really tired of wearing my fin for a hat. Glad I had a strobe though. I carry a rolled-up boonie and a quart platypus of H2O in my bc now. Folks mock me.

Five or six times my son and I got flown into a lake system in Ontario north of Red Lake for a week of walleye and northern fishing. We were the only ones for at least 50 miles around. Some of the best "son" time I've had. I gave a thought or two about what we'd do if the plane didn't splash in to pick us up...Plenty of monofilament but no gloves.

I once lost my entire freaking pack down a gorge in a backcountry wilderness area but that one is too embarrassing to relate further. That could have gotten sporty if the weather hadn't cooperated. Still had my shoelaces. No gloves though. Sure glad I had a Bic in my pocket.

mugwump · 10-31-2013, 12:03

What I don't see in anyone's list is mosquito netting. I have no-see-um grade headgear in every pack. Too light to leave out. Some Voyageurs on the upper Mississippi watershed killed themselves to get away from the skeeters. Skeeters can drive you insane, sap your strength, and make you stupid from lack of sleep. I hate mosquitoes and yet they love me so much.