Egypt’s Brotherhood declares war on the bikini

[Ewok]

As a member of the boob squad, I would like to add my opinion. First, to each his or her own. If you WANT to wear a hijab, wear one but not because your father/brother/uncle/Imam is going to beat you if you don't. If you WANT to wear 5 inch heels, a mini skirt and cleavage showing shirt, go for it.

I am glad I live in a country where I can choose to wear what I want when I want. I don't dress based on any religion or familial pressure. I also take offense to the notion that society has somehow "oppressed" me and psychologically convinced me to dress a certain way. Thank you for making all females sound like brainless idiots who cannot choose what to wear and when without being dictated to by the fashion police. Augmentation, anorexia and bulimia are personal choices. Stop sounding like a confused feminist.

I wear what I want when I want because I want to. Period. Thankfully, I live in a country that allows me the freedom to do so.

Originally Posted by Pete

I'm trying to link your two thoughts from posts 11 and 13. I'm sorry but they just don't go together.

You say anyone should be allowed to wear anything they want with no direct or overt psychological oppression but you seem to agree that females in our society are under psychological oppression to dress the way they do and the solution would be to put them under the burka.

Hmmmmm.

Not saying that at all. My point is that our house is not clean and it is presumptious for us to define what feminism is. To understand others we must understand how others view ourselves. The solution is niether. Betty Friedan in the frist wave of feminism wrote a book called, "The Feminine Mystique." The basis of the book was that white women were relegated to stay at home, raise the kids, cook, clean, etc. She proposed that women need to break these barriers and get into the workplace, force men to share in parenting, break social norms. The only problem with her premise was that it was not inclusive. Her she was defining feminism; but, whole groups of women could not relate. I do not remember the author; but, it was titled "Ask a Black Women." In it, they interviewed black women and asked them what they thought about Friedan's book. They all said I wish I could stay at home. I wish their father was here to pay the bills and not cook. Simply, they believed that this was not THEIR feminism. Back to the bikini......who are we to define what is feminism?

Originally Posted by Ewok

As a member of the boob squad, I would like to add my opinion. First, to each his or her own. If you WANT to wear a hijab, wear one but not because your father/brother/uncle/Imam is going to beat you if you don't. If you WANT to wear 5 inch heels, a mini skirt and cleavage showing shirt, go for it.

I am glad I live in a country where I can choose to wear what I want when I want. I don't dress based on any religion or familial pressure. I also take offense to the notion that society has somehow "oppressed" me and psychologically convinced me to dress a certain way. Thank you for making all females sound like brainless idiots who cannot choose what to wear and when without being dictated to by the fashion police. Augmentation, anorexia and bulimia are personal choices. Stop sounding like a confused feminist.

I wear what I want when I want because I want to. Period. Thankfully, I live in a country that allows me the freedom to do so.

I dont think that I am the one who sounds like a confused feminist and would never personally attack someone. Let the strength of your arguement prove yourself; attacking someone may make you feel better but accomplishes very little. As for "brainless idiots" they do not include just women. The concept of feminism is contigent on a duality. We do not know black if we do not knwo white. We do not good without evil. We do not know feminine if we do not know masculine. Men who judge women based on their looks for afore mentioned reasons are "brainless idiots." If we believe in this dichotomy it is logical to assume that men are just as oppressed as women. Is the man who hides his feminine side, cries, is fat, bald, weak, etc just as oppressed? If there are gender stereotypes there will always be oppression for those that do not meet those stereotypes. Perhaps I am a confused feminist. And this btw has nothing to do with any form of patritism. This is not a zero sum game. My arguements were not to make America look worse and Egypt better or converse. We are a great country and am thankful that I live in a place where I can learn espouse such great ideas with other great people.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by WayoftheWolf

............. My arguements were not to make America look worse and Egypt better or converse. We are a great country and am thankful that I live in a place where I can learn espouse such great ideas with other great people.

Your arguments are from the school house. The old "their suicide bomber is OK because we did worse 400 years ago" gets old.

Now that it's the internet age Islam should be able to catch up with the rest of the world - but no, Islam is trying to drag the rest of the world back into the dark ages.

Which direction is Egypt now moving? Into a more enlightened direction? Or would you say regressing a bit? That's the point of the original story I linked.

Is Islam around the world becoming more tolerant of other religions or more intolerant?

Who has more rights? A Muslim in the west or a Christian in a Muslim country?

[Ewok]

Originally Posted by WayoftheWolf

I dont think that I am the one who sounds like a confused feminist and would never personally attack someone. Let the strength of your arguement prove yourself; attacking someone may make you feel better but accomplishes very little. As for "brainless idiots" they do not include just women. The concept of feminism is contigent on a duality. We do not know black if we do not knwo white. We do not good without evil. We do not know feminine if we do not know masculine. Men who judge women based on their looks for afore mentioned reasons are "brainless idiots." If we believe in this dichotomy it is logical to assume that men are just as oppressed as women. Is the man who hides his feminine side, cries, is fat, bald, weak, etc just as oppressed? If there are gender stereotypes there will always be oppression for those that do not meet those stereotypes. Perhaps I am a confused feminist. And this btw has nothing to do with any form of patritism. This is not a zero sum game. My arguements were not to make America look worse and Egypt better or converse. We are a great country and am thankful that I live in a place where I can learn espouse such great ideas with other great people.

I didn't at all attack you. I stated an opinion. My opinion was and is that whether you intended to or not, your post certainly made it sound as if American women are oppressed by society in regard to clothing and apparently body image. My response was simply alluding that those are personal choices not societal demands. As an American woman (maybe I am exception but at least I can base my ideas of women off being a woman), I don't at all feel as if I am forced to dress a certain way.
If you took my referring to you sounding like a confused feminist as a personal attack, then that's your problem.
I might be completely off base and out of line here and I have no doubt someone will be along very shortly to correct me if I am but I for one am tired of reading your posts where you laud your education like it's absolute and unique. I congratulate you for getting an education and in the process deciding to study areas that are or were out of the norm for you but you are not the only person on this site who is educated.
Now that I am completely off topic, I am finished.

[Peregrino]

This is getting annoying. WotW - go sit quietly somewhere and meditate. Otherwise I'm about to introduce you to the consequences of annoying one of the Alphas.

[The Reaper]

Ah yes, Generation Why.

TR

Originally Posted by Pete

Your arguments are from the school house. The old "their suicide bomber is OK because we did worse 400 years ago" gets old.

Now that it's the internet age Islam should be able to catch up with the rest of the world - but no, Islam is trying to drag the rest of the world back into the dark ages.

Which direction is Egypt now moving? Into a more enlightened direction? Or would you say regressing a bit? That's the point of the original story I linked.

Is Islam around the world becoming more tolerant of other religions or more intolerant?

Who has more rights? A Muslim in the west or a Christian in a Muslim country?

I think you missed my point. Historical relativism "400 years ago or 2 minutes ago" as a means of a moral measurement "their suicide bomber is ok" had nothing to do with what I was saying. I dont feel that I really can give a response to any of your questions. I am not in a position to know nor have the means to find out. I can say that I am wary to let a minority speak for majority of Muslims. So, I am skeptical that Islam is trying to move the rest of the world into the dark ages. I think on the whole Egypt is moving to a more enlightened direction. Atleast, the people are standing up for themselves. I believe Islam is becoming more tolerant around the world. Let me say this first we have to do what we have to do: but, Islam is intolerant of Abu Graib, GITMO, Predator strikes killing children, hypocritical nuclear policy, etc. However, I think this is changing due to many development projects and countries like Turkey/UAE setting examples of modern Islam. Who has more rights? Obviously, a muslim in the west. Sorry to get off topic

Originally Posted by Ewok

I didn't at all attack you. I stated an opinion. My opinion was and is that whether you intended to or not, your post certainly made it sound as if American women are oppressed by society in regard to clothing and apparently body image. My response was simply alluding that those are personal choices not societal demands. As an American woman (maybe I am exception but at least I can base my ideas of women off being a woman), I don't at all feel as if I am forced to dress a certain way.
If you took my referring to you sounding like a confused feminist as a personal attack, then that's your problem.
I might be completely off base and out of line here and I have no doubt someone will be along very shortly to correct me if I am but I for one am tired of reading your posts where you laud your education like it's absolute and unique. I congratulate you for getting an education and in the process deciding to study areas that are or were out of the norm for you but you are not the only person on this site who is educated.
Now that I am completely off topic, I am finished.

My sincere apologies. I just wanted to have a conversation about something I was interested in and share my experiences. I never meant to throw my education in anybody's face and apologize for any disrespect. I have all the respect in the world for every type of education some more than others like the people on this site. The things you have learned, I can only read about. I dont want this to happen again; so, if you wouldnt mind taking the time and let me know specifically what I did, I would really appreciate it. That goes for anybody. Thanks and again I do apologize

[Ambush Master]

Originally Posted by Peregrino

This is getting annoying. WotW - go sit quietly somewhere and meditate. Otherwise I'm about to introduce you to the consequences of annoying one of the Alphas.

Very.... Very.... CLOSE!!!

Originally Posted by Ewok

As a member of the boob squad.....
5 inch heels, a mini skirt and cleavage showing shirt,... I wear what I want when I want because I want to. Period. Thankfully, I live in a country that allows me the freedom to do so.

Amen sister, and more power too you. I seldom read so many words I like in one sentance/paragraph then as in yours, so thanks.

Of all the women in my life, in whom I have the upmost repect for, my Grandmother, (RIP), my mother and sisters, cousins, ex-wives (2), ex-GFs, (many and counting), wives of buddies and friends, etc. All have one common element or theme, and that is empowerment.

All do exactly what they want, while myself and all their men, (respectively) just think, "Why are they so damn cute?"

My father taught me a trick. Sometimes you have to make them hate you just enough that they walk away, so you can just watch them, walk away (wink, wink). In our house, it was when my father was washing engine parts in the dish-washer.

Nothing is quite are beautiful as a confident woman.

As for fashion police. I've been accused of having nicer legs then my date when we're out at the local pub and I'm wearing a kilt. Go figure.

[ZonieDiver]

I never meant to throw my education in anybody's face and apologize for any disrespect. I have all the respect in the world for every type of education some more than others like the people on this site.

I tried to make a point about this attitude of yours in the "Conflict in Israel" thread, but I guess you missed it. I'll be direct: bullcrap! You have a BA with a double major. Many of the QPs here have a BA/BS and many years of experience in more than one area - military and civilian. Many of the QPs have advanced degrees from more than one college. Several of our regular posters are very well-versed, academically - and have that pesky real world experience.

Where did you get your BA, Harvard? (That would explain a lot!)

And... no one cares whether you have a dog and a wolf or a hippo and a rhino! Read more and post less. You need to read tbrough this site and see how much 'book learning' some of the 'other types of education' people here actually have.

[Team Sergeant]

WayoftheWolf,
You now have the attention of quite a few Special Forces soldiers. Not the type of attention one desires on here. You may want to read more and post less, well only if you wish to extend your stay with us.

Team Sergeant

[BOfH]

Originally Posted by WayoftheWolf

I can say that I am wary to let a minority speak for majority of Muslims. So, I am skeptical that Islam is trying to move the rest of the world into the dark ages.

I know this is going to get a bit off topic, so QPs/Mods/All please forgive me, however, since you have been instructed to do more reading than writing, lets point out the following issues with this statement, and fill in some gaps:

a. What you read is seen through the lens of the writer, however you wish to interpret it, it will almost always be biased towards the agenda of the writer, and to find a writer without some form of bias and/or agenda, is to find a snowball in hell.

b. Lets get something straight: The last cleric that attempted to moderately interpret the Koran, essentially stripping away all of the Medinan Suras which are considered most violent, was executed by Indonesia for heresy(can't find link at the moment, see Spencer's book). To say that AQ and the rest of the terror groups out there are fundamentalists, hyper-scriptualists, insane etc. is fundamentally wrong. Hadiths or not, Islam is rarely open to interpretation, while there are several small groups in America which are "legitimately" trying to promote a stripped down(minus most of the Medinan Suras and a few others), peaceful version, they are seen by most of their compatriots as heretics. The question begs, so why isn't every Muslim in America attempting Jihad, and the answer is maybe they are, and for those who truly aren't, those who just want to live their life, they would be held in the same regard as their "peaceful religion" brethren, by their Koran thumping, AK toting "brothers" who read the Koran in it's native tongue and interpret it as read. You can't argue with whats written, and so violently upheld over the ages...So your minority...isn't much of a minority at all. See point A, don't let the books fool you.

Do yourself a favor, since you seem to know some Arabic, read the Koran in chronological order, then pick up a copy of Robert Spencer's: The Infidels Guide to the Koran. Once you are done with that, read through every thread here on the subject, especially the posts by those who have spent considerable time in the sandbox and in "caveland".

c. This brings me to my last point: If you haven't asked it, I'll ask it for you: So why not the Jews? The Torah isn't liberal, it may be tolerant, but lets face the facts, Jews stone people. So how come many Jews aren't blind or hunting down Amalek? The answer to that is: For those Jews that believe(and abide by) in both the Written and Oral law, the written law is open to interpretation within certain parameters. The concept of Dina D'Malchusa Dina or "the law of the land is the law" provides Jews with the ability to live peacefully in exile within the framework of whatever country they reside in, provided the enforced laws do not infringe on Torah law; while they wait for the final redemption which is to be ascertained by G-D and not by man trying to take over the world.

My .02, YMMV

[TOMAHAWK9521]

Originally Posted by Pete

Egypt’s Brotherhood declares war on the bikini

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=235687

"Freedom and Justice" party leader: "We must place regulations on tourists wishing to visit Egypt."..............."

&

"............"The pharaonic culture is a rotten culture," A-Shahhat told the London-based Arabic daily A-Sharq Al-Awsat on Wednesday, saying the faces of ancient statues "should be covered with wax, since they are religiously forbidden." He likened the Egyptian relics to the idols which circled the walls of Mecca in pre-Islamic times................."

The true face of Islam folks.

As an ardent admirer and respectful connoisseur of the healthy and scantily-clad female form, I say they've gone too far this time. Them's fightin' words!