01-31-2011, 21:12
|
#1
|
Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Hobbiton
Posts: 1,198
|
12W (Carpenter) Skill Info
Hello all,
Haven't posted for a while but I'm looking into hiring some ETSed Army guys into some carpentry positions in my company.
Wondering if anyone could suggest where I can find some skill level explanations.
i.e. 12W10; 12W20; 12W30 type descriptions.
Any help appreciated, just trying to get a feel for actual skill sets and competencies.
Thanks
Scimitar
__________________
"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men! Do not pray for tasks equal to your powers. Pray for power equal to your tasks."
-- Phillip Brooks
"A man's reach should exceed his grasp"
-- Robert Browning
"Hooah! Pushing thru the shit til Daisies grow, Sir"
-- Me
"Malo mori quam foedari"
"Death before Dishonour"
-- Family Coat-of-Arms Maxim
"Mārohirohi! Kia Kaha!"
"Be strong! Drive-on!"
-- Māori saying
|
Scimitar is offline
|
|
01-31-2011, 21:29
|
#2
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 2,531
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Wondering if anyone could suggest where I can find some skill level explanations.
i.e. 12W10; 12W20; 12W30 type descriptions.
Any help appreciated, just trying to get a feel for actual skill sets and competencies.
|
It's hard to tell...as a 12A1P, I was a company commander's radio operator...was I a competent combat engineer? I passed my pro pay test when it came up...what was my experience as a combat engineer? "Alpha two-zero this is foxtrot four-one bravo, SITREP, over..."
Our cooks were 12A1P, our mechanics were 12B1P...(old MOS codes)...
http://www.us-army-info.com/pages/mos/skills.html
After I made E5, I was moved to a line squad as demolitions specialist, then assistant squad leader...in all honesty, as a PFC and SP4, I talked on the radio and worked on a jeep...even after training for demolitions in the Skill Development Base (an late Vietnam era program for specific skills), when I got to the unit, I was assigned to a duty position based on the needs of the unit...
__________________
""A man must know his destiny. if he does not recognize it, then he is lost. By this I mean, once, twice, or at the very most, three times, fate will reach out and tap a man on the shoulder. if he has the imagination, he will turn around and fate will point out to him what fork in the road he should take, if he has the guts, he will take it.""- GEN George S. Patton
|
lksteve is offline
|
|
02-01-2011, 00:29
|
#3
|
Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Hobbiton
Posts: 1,198
|
Thanks Steve,
I found the same website. Hoping for something 12W specific.
Sean
__________________
"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men! Do not pray for tasks equal to your powers. Pray for power equal to your tasks."
-- Phillip Brooks
"A man's reach should exceed his grasp"
-- Robert Browning
"Hooah! Pushing thru the shit til Daisies grow, Sir"
-- Me
"Malo mori quam foedari"
"Death before Dishonour"
-- Family Coat-of-Arms Maxim
"Mārohirohi! Kia Kaha!"
"Be strong! Drive-on!"
-- Māori saying
|
Scimitar is offline
|
|
02-01-2011, 02:35
|
#4
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Lower Alabama
Posts: 649
|
For a few years engineers were 21CMF but appear to be back to 12CMF. From site listed by lksteve:
Major Duties: The carpentry and masonry specialist performs general heavy carpentry, structural steel, and masonry duties, to include fabrication, erection, maintenance, and repair of rigging devices, trusses, and other structural assemblies. Duties for MOS 21W at each level of skill are:
* Skill Levels
o Skill Level 1 MOSC 21W1O. Employs basic carpentry and masonry skills. Assists in building layout, framing, sheathing, fabrication and roofing structures. Assists in erection of rough timber structures. Reads and interprets drawings, plans and specifications. Repairs and renovates all types of structures and erects prefabricated buildings. Constructs concrete form work for slabs, walls, and columns. Assists in performance of combat engineer missions, Reserve Components (RC) assists in sawmill set up and operation.
o Skill Level 2 MOSC 21W2O. Interprets construction drawings and blueprints. Prepares building layout. Constructs wooden or concrete foundation and erects building framework. Installs flooring, walls, partitions, siding, roofing, doors, windows, stairs, and interior finishing. Erects prefabricated and pre-engineered metal structures. Applies proper concrete curing methods. Directs operational maintenance on assigned equipment. Reserve Components perform millwright, head saw operator, and edger functions during sawmill operations.
x/S
__________________
If not us, than who?
Last edited by exsquid; 02-01-2011 at 02:42.
|
exsquid is offline
|
|
02-01-2011, 20:23
|
#5
|
Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Hobbiton
Posts: 1,198
|
Ah, great stuff Squid, damn those MOS changes.
Thanks
Sean
__________________
"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men! Do not pray for tasks equal to your powers. Pray for power equal to your tasks."
-- Phillip Brooks
"A man's reach should exceed his grasp"
-- Robert Browning
"Hooah! Pushing thru the shit til Daisies grow, Sir"
-- Me
"Malo mori quam foedari"
"Death before Dishonour"
-- Family Coat-of-Arms Maxim
"Mārohirohi! Kia Kaha!"
"Be strong! Drive-on!"
-- Māori saying
|
Scimitar is offline
|
|
02-01-2011, 21:07
|
#6
|
Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Hobbiton
Posts: 1,198
|
OK next question. Been away from USAREC for too long.
From memory the skill MOSC tends to be lined with Rank
10 = E1 - E4
20 = E5
30 = E6
40 = E7
50 = E8-9
Sound right?
Next, from memory there's some sort of practical promotion test isn't there. Much like the Combat MOSs.
Can anyone enlighten? The scope of skill is not too bad, but is there some minial quality requirement. Might just need to line some suckers up and see what they can throw out?
Wonder if I can find a 12W WLC or BNCO course description around here somewhere, perhaps ATARRS?
Scimitar
__________________
"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men! Do not pray for tasks equal to your powers. Pray for power equal to your tasks."
-- Phillip Brooks
"A man's reach should exceed his grasp"
-- Robert Browning
"Hooah! Pushing thru the shit til Daisies grow, Sir"
-- Me
"Malo mori quam foedari"
"Death before Dishonour"
-- Family Coat-of-Arms Maxim
"Mārohirohi! Kia Kaha!"
"Be strong! Drive-on!"
-- Māori saying
Last edited by Scimitar; 02-01-2011 at 21:10.
|
Scimitar is offline
|
|
02-01-2011, 22:53
|
#7
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 2,531
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Sound right?
|
Sounds right to me...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Might just need to line some suckers up and see what they can throw out?
|
I would be loathe to tell you how to run your business, but I believe I'd have to see some sort of physical evidence or administer some sort of practical test as part of the hiring process...when I interview folks for employment as a surveyor, I usually leave a data collector on the table in the interview room...if the prospect is going through the software when I walk in, it's usually a good sign...
__________________
""A man must know his destiny. if he does not recognize it, then he is lost. By this I mean, once, twice, or at the very most, three times, fate will reach out and tap a man on the shoulder. if he has the imagination, he will turn around and fate will point out to him what fork in the road he should take, if he has the guts, he will take it.""- GEN George S. Patton
|
lksteve is offline
|
|
02-02-2011, 13:08
|
#8
|
Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Hobbiton
Posts: 1,198
|
No no, lksteve all advice welcome.
Yes, I agree on the practical test.
Just hoping to find some sort of idea on qualitative ability to provide us with a ball park of what can be expected from let's say an E5 12W(21W) with say 4-5 years TIS and of course the 12W20 MOSC rating.
Now this is where I wonder into unknown territory. From memory BNCOC has a skill component in line with your MOS. If so, where can I get a hold of that test, that'll give me the idea of qualitative AND quantitative skills.
Cheers
S
__________________
"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men! Do not pray for tasks equal to your powers. Pray for power equal to your tasks."
-- Phillip Brooks
"A man's reach should exceed his grasp"
-- Robert Browning
"Hooah! Pushing thru the shit til Daisies grow, Sir"
-- Me
"Malo mori quam foedari"
"Death before Dishonour"
-- Family Coat-of-Arms Maxim
"Mārohirohi! Kia Kaha!"
"Be strong! Drive-on!"
-- Māori saying
|
Scimitar is offline
|
|
02-02-2011, 16:46
|
#9
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ft Bragg, NC
Posts: 62
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scimitar
No no, lksteve all advice welcome.
Yes, I agree on the practical test.
Just hoping to find some sort of idea on qualitative ability to provide us with a ball park of what can be expected from let's say an E5 12W(21W) with say 4-5 years TIS and of course the 12W20 MOSC rating.
Now this is where I wonder into unknown territory. From memory BNCOC has a skill component in line with your MOS. If so, where can I get a hold of that test, that'll give me the idea of qualitative AND quantitative skills.
Cheers
S
|
My dad has over 50 yrs experience as a carpenter. As a foreman and super he has hired and fired guys. You can always give guys a shot and when they don't preform at the appropriate level for the job you could let them go. I've even been fired by my old man once or twice for not working as hard as he thought i should.
__________________
Did you see that??
|
cobra22 is offline
|
|
02-02-2011, 18:25
|
#10
|
Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Hobbiton
Posts: 1,198
|
lol Cobra, I too have been fired by my old man once or twice as a kid. Funny how that brings a smile to my face.
Hey another question here, wanted to ask here so as not to look too dumb to the ACAP rep.
When a soldier applies for a job I assume as an employer I can ask for some proof of service record, disciplinary action, rank advancement, stuff to show attitude, character, and general aptitude.
What would be OK to ask for and what's the form called. I have a few DD codes rolling around in my head but...
Cheers
Scimitar
__________________
"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men! Do not pray for tasks equal to your powers. Pray for power equal to your tasks."
-- Phillip Brooks
"A man's reach should exceed his grasp"
-- Robert Browning
"Hooah! Pushing thru the shit til Daisies grow, Sir"
-- Me
"Malo mori quam foedari"
"Death before Dishonour"
-- Family Coat-of-Arms Maxim
"Mārohirohi! Kia Kaha!"
"Be strong! Drive-on!"
-- Māori saying
|
Scimitar is offline
|
|
02-02-2011, 18:44
|
#11
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 2,531
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scimitar
When a soldier applies for a job I assume as an employer I can ask for some proof of service record, disciplinary action, rank advancement, stuff to show attitude, character, and general aptitude.
What would be OK to ask for and what's the form called. I have a few DD codes rolling around in my head but...
|
DD Form 214, Certificate of of Release or Discharge from Active Duty...it will show the nature of service as well as the military training completed during the members term of service, indicate the rank at which the member was separated and the duty MOS...
__________________
""A man must know his destiny. if he does not recognize it, then he is lost. By this I mean, once, twice, or at the very most, three times, fate will reach out and tap a man on the shoulder. if he has the imagination, he will turn around and fate will point out to him what fork in the road he should take, if he has the guts, he will take it.""- GEN George S. Patton
|
lksteve is offline
|
|
02-02-2011, 20:44
|
#12
|
Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Hobbiton
Posts: 1,198
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by lksteve
DD Form 214, Certificate of of Release or Discharge from Active Duty...it will show the nature of service as well as the military training completed during the members term of service, indicate the rank at which the member was separated and the duty MOS...
|
Thanks lksteve,
Hoping for a little more....? Any ideas, essentially a military resume, anyway I can source disciplinary actions, review notes, promotion dates?
Trying to get the information every employer dreams of and the Army has it all stored away..... :-)
May just be impolite to ask....?
S
__________________
"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men! Do not pray for tasks equal to your powers. Pray for power equal to your tasks."
-- Phillip Brooks
"A man's reach should exceed his grasp"
-- Robert Browning
"Hooah! Pushing thru the shit til Daisies grow, Sir"
-- Me
"Malo mori quam foedari"
"Death before Dishonour"
-- Family Coat-of-Arms Maxim
"Mārohirohi! Kia Kaha!"
"Be strong! Drive-on!"
-- Māori saying
|
Scimitar is offline
|
|
02-02-2011, 20:59
|
#13
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 2,531
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Any ideas, essentially a military resume, anyway I can source disciplinary actions, review notes, promotion dates?May just be impolite to ask....?
|
You want alot of information for a carpenter...you can ask, the individual is asking you for a job...ask for references, etc...DA Form 2 (it used to be anyway) had a synopsis of promotions, etc...I can't recall if disciplinary actions were listed or not...no review notes...but it did list promotions and assignments...
I have to ask...don't you trust your experience in this? I've hired and fired folks with less information than you want...at some point, your experience and ability to read people has to be more important than paper...and the fact that a guy had an Article 15 for doing something stupid as a young buck private shouldn't be held against him...when I commanded a company, some of my peers would give a guy an Article 15 for looking cross-ways at them...
Sorry, hoss, but it sounds to me like you're trying to cover your ass with his paper...MOO, YMMV...
__________________
""A man must know his destiny. if he does not recognize it, then he is lost. By this I mean, once, twice, or at the very most, three times, fate will reach out and tap a man on the shoulder. if he has the imagination, he will turn around and fate will point out to him what fork in the road he should take, if he has the guts, he will take it.""- GEN George S. Patton
|
lksteve is offline
|
|
02-02-2011, 21:08
|
#14
|
Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Hobbiton
Posts: 1,198
|
Hey lksteve,
Don't mind ya saying it.
Guess it's a mix of loving the fact I can get more from a previous employer then a "yes we employed him" and the fact that this is my first technical hire in the US.
Technical hires always make me a little more picky. Not my area of expertise see.
Shit most definitely works different here.
Appreciate the pull-up.
Cheers
S
__________________
"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men! Do not pray for tasks equal to your powers. Pray for power equal to your tasks."
-- Phillip Brooks
"A man's reach should exceed his grasp"
-- Robert Browning
"Hooah! Pushing thru the shit til Daisies grow, Sir"
-- Me
"Malo mori quam foedari"
"Death before Dishonour"
-- Family Coat-of-Arms Maxim
"Mārohirohi! Kia Kaha!"
"Be strong! Drive-on!"
-- Māori saying
|
Scimitar is offline
|
|
02-02-2011, 21:12
|
#15
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 2,531
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Technical hires always make me a little more picky. Not my area of expertise see.
|
I'd find someone to help interview your technical hires...obviously, you don't supervise carpenters...at least, I hope not...
__________________
""A man must know his destiny. if he does not recognize it, then he is lost. By this I mean, once, twice, or at the very most, three times, fate will reach out and tap a man on the shoulder. if he has the imagination, he will turn around and fate will point out to him what fork in the road he should take, if he has the guts, he will take it.""- GEN George S. Patton
Last edited by lksteve; 02-02-2011 at 21:15.
|
lksteve is offline
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:44.
|
|
|