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Old 08-07-2006, 13:22   #1
Aoresteen
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Why was the 5th Moved?

I've tried searching QP and Google but can't find anything on this. My questions is, why was 5th Group moved to Campbell in 1988? Then two years later 3rd Group was re-activated at Bragg. Why wasn't 3rd Group just activated at Campbell?

I was just wondering. Thanks!
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Old 08-07-2006, 14:19   #2
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5th group move to Campbell

Hi Tony,
Thats a great question. I was there with the 5th up till about three years before the move. The rumor mill at that time had it that they wanted the 5th to work more with the 160th and that the 7th was going to be pulling back its Panama FOB onto Bragg.
Anyway, hopefully somebody has the staright story.
thanks
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Old 08-07-2006, 14:57   #3
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Nobody has it.

Nobody has the straight story. But there are a bunch of pieces of stories floating around that anybody can make into just about any story they want.

By the mid-80s 5th Group was spending a bunch of time at Ft Bliss. Even had 5th Group Forward there. 5th Gp (FWD) had all the modified vehicles and were the base instructors when the battalions rotated through for their yearly training.

The world on the street was "We were going". In our off time we were cruising around town checking the neighborhoods, homes, prices, etc.

A few problems with Bliss were ranges. TRADOC covered most of Bliss and the rocket guys had White Sands. Any of the long range vehicle movements took a ton of coordination.

5th Group was working with aviation but mostly stuff like CH-47s, heavy lift, long range. Little birds were fun to play with but hard to sling a jeep under them.

Then BANG, one day, It's not Bliss it's Campbell and 3rd Battalion is staying at Bragg to become 1st of the 3rd.

Only the Army can do stuff like that.

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Old 08-07-2006, 15:05   #4
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We moved in 1986 not 88, I was one of the first to arrive at Ft Campbell.

I heard it was a very "political" move to say the least. If you find out why we moved I'd sure like to know...... (then again any place away from Fayettenam was a good place in those days.)
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Old 08-07-2006, 16:56   #5
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We got tired of them moping around Bragg looking like somebody kicked their dog, so we kicked them off.

Plus, we already had all their Gore-Tex...
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Old 08-09-2006, 02:10   #6
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Holy Crap!!!!!! You guys were issued Goretex? I didn't find that until I was out. Got the 'first generation' stuff. Worked great for a few years, then became 'plugged up'. For the seams you had to buy and apply a Goretex seam sealer. The Second generation GT had all the seams taped.
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Old 08-09-2006, 06:31   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12B4S
Holy Crap!!!!!! You guys were issued Goretex? I didn't find that until I was out. Got the 'first generation' stuff. Worked great for a few years, then became 'plugged up'. For the seams you had to buy and apply a Goretex seam sealer. The Second generation GT had all the seams taped.

I remember when 1/10th was issued one of the first generations of Goretex, it was either 1983 or 1984. They were ordered to wear it strictly in the field and not in garrison. IIRC the order was an attempt to prevent jealously amongst the legs or at least that was the ostensible reason provided.
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Old 08-09-2006, 07:09   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12B4S
Holy Crap!!!!!! You guys were issued Goretex? I didn't find that until I was out. Got the 'first generation' stuff. Worked great for a few years, then became 'plugged up'. For the seams you had to buy and apply a Goretex seam sealer. The Second generation GT had all the seams taped.
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At Devens in 84, we had all the cool Gore-Tex (light and heavy), G-T boots, Eco-tats, ponchos, polypro(2 full systems - light and heavy) - all courtesy of Natick - and they let us wear it whenver we wanted, all the legs were MI students, support, medical or ARNG units.
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Old 06-23-2009, 18:02   #9
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Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc View Post
We got tired of them moping around Bragg looking like somebody kicked their dog, so we kicked them off.

Plus, we already had all their Gore-Tex...
I thought is was because of all the deployments 7th SFG was doing in Central America. There wasn't any Per diem left for 5th SFG to buy MRE'S for the Desert
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Old 06-23-2009, 21:56   #10
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5th Group

Amusing thing at the time ('80s-'90's) was the reaction you'd get from someone when you told them you were in 5th Group. Was most often a scrunched face and "ew!"

Not alot of fun being a desert unit. Nowadays, however, who isn't?
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Old 09-19-2010, 23:32   #11
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The Real Story Behind the 5th Gp Move from Bragg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aoresteen View Post
I've tried searching QP and Google but can't find anything on this. My questions is, why was 5th Group moved to Campbell in 1988? Then two years later 3rd Group was re-activated at Bragg. Why wasn't 3rd Group just activated at Campbell?

I was just wondering. Thanks!
OK.... This may get a little long but here is pretty much how it happened.

5th Group was a Desert Group. We had recently (within a year or two) moved from Smoke Bomb Hill to over by Pope to some delapitated WWII bldgs.

5th Gp was slated to move to Ft. Bliss. There was huge political pressure to move to Ft. Campbell from a couple of Senators and at the same time there was talk that another group (3rd) was going to be stood up. Anyway, these Congressmen from Kentucky wanted their very own SF Group at Ft Campbell. COL Guest was trying to get people out of Bragg and get an ADVON (5th Gp FWD) to Bliss thinking that if he had people already down there it would be easier for his arguement in that money had already been spent sending personnel down and standing people up. At the time ODA 581 and 582 were AKA (B-500 (Second Edition) Not to be associated with Blank Frank Tony and the first edition that got kicked out of Australia).
Anyway, COl Guest (he may have may BG by then I can't remember) managed to get us (B-500) orders and had put us on stand by a couple of days earlier telling us that when we got orders...get off of Bragg ASAP. We did. The day a couple of us left people were trying to recall the orders and stop us from leaving. We were prepared and didn't answer our phones.
We got to Bliss and ended up becoming A/1/5 (ODAs 511 and 512).
The rest of 5th Group ended up at Campbell. The reason 5th moved to Campbell and not 3rd was a matter of logistics. The Senators won and A group was going to end up at Campbell. Since 3rd group was a NEW unit, it was authorized new barracks wherever it ended up. However it 5th stayed at Bragg, it was going to be stuck in the old WWII baracks. So it was determined that 5th would move to Ft. Campbell which would give them new facilities and 3rd would be stood up at Bragg and a new compound would be built.
Fast fwd to 1989/1990. LTC Kinsinger hated that we were part of his BN but he didn't have immediate access to mess with us. Even though we as a Co. owned more training area at Ft. Bliss than Ft. Campbell in it's entirety. This was mostly due to some old fashioned SF dealing and a really good S-4 guy named SSG Tom Beach. We also had an agreement with BLM to use thousands of acres in New Mexico (and Oro Grande) for Desert Survival. In addition, we had our own ranges that were totally under our control that had a 180 degree shooting house on it as well as linear targets, to include a bus. We were working on getting a 737 body when we were shut down...but that''s another story.
Anyway, SGM Clough and Kinsinger made a deal with us (They lied to us) and talked us into submitting 4187's to PCS to Campbell on the guarantee that we wouldn't PCS for 18 months. Orders started showing up in 3 months.
If you check official records, you will find that A Co. (the guidon was at Ft. Bliss) was never officially moved from Bliss. They simply essentially PCSed all personnel out of the unit.

And that.....is the real story of 5th Group moving to Campbell

Last edited by Shadar; 09-19-2010 at 23:49.
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Old 09-20-2010, 00:08   #12
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Originally Posted by Shadar View Post
OK.... This may get a little long but here is pretty much how it happened.

5th Group was a Desert Group. We had recently (within a year or two) moved from Smoke Bomb Hill to over by Pope to some delapitated WWII bldgs.

5th Gp was slated to move to Ft. Bliss. There was huge political pressure to move to Ft. Campbell from a couple of Senators and at the same time there was talk that another group (3rd) was going to be stood up. Anyway, these Congressmen from Kentucky wanted their very own SF Group at Ft Campbell. COL Guest was trying to get people out of Bragg and get an ADVON (5th Gp FWD) to Bliss thinking that if he had people already down there it would be easier for his arguement in that money had already been spent sending personnel down and standing people up. At the time ODA 581 and 582 were AKA (B-500 (Second Edition) Not to be associated with Blank Frank Tony and the first edition that got kicked out of Australia).
Anyway, COl Guest (he may have may BG by then I can't remember) managed to get us (B-500) orders and had put us on stand by a couple of days earlier telling us that when we got orders...get off of Bragg ASAP. We did. The day a couple of us left people were trying to recall the orders and stop us from leaving. We were prepared and didn't answer our phones.
We got to Bliss and ended up becoming A/1/5 (ODAs 511 and 512).
The rest of 5th Group ended up at Campbell. The reason 5th moved to Campbell and not 3rd was a matter of logistics. The Senators won and A group was going to end up at Campbell. Since 3rd group was a NEW unit, it was authorized new barracks wherever it ended up. However it 5th stayed at Bragg, it was going to be stuck in the old WWII baracks. So it was determined that 5th would move to Ft. Campbell which would give them new facilities and 3rd would be stood up at Bragg and a new compound would be built.
Fast fwd to 1989/1990. LTC Kinsinger hated that we were part of his BN but he didn't have immediate access to mess with us. Even though we as a Co. owned more training area at Ft. Bliss than Ft. Campbell in it's entirety. This was mostly due to some old fashioned SF dealing and a really good S-4 guy named SSG Tom Beach. We also had an agreement with BLM to use thousands of acres in New Mexico (and Oro Grande) for Desert Survival. In addition, we had our own ranges that were totally under our control that had a 180 degree shooting house on it as well as linear targets, to include a bus. We were working on getting a 737 body when we were shut down...but that''s another story.
Anyway, SGM Clough and Kinsinger made a deal with us (They lied to us) and talked us into submitting 4187's to PCS to Campbell on the guarantee that we wouldn't PCS for 18 months. Orders started showing up in 3 months.
If you check official records, you will find that A Co. (the guidon was at Ft. Bliss) was never officially moved from Bliss. They simply essentially PCSed all personnel out of the unit.

And that.....is the real story of 5th Group moving to Campbell

Shadar,
Thanks for the very interesting story. I have read all the posts here about why 5th Group moved. Lots of different opinions, but interesting reading nevertheless. This is one of the many reasons why I love this PS site. Lots of information and suggestions to everyone. Every day I learn something new about SF.

Thanks

SFSalRet08
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Old 09-20-2010, 03:25   #13
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OK.... This may get a little long but here is pretty much how it happened. . . . And that.....is the real story of 5th Group moving to Campbell
Shadar thanks for the info. I remember going to Bliss for 6-8 weeks was "Fun, Fun, Fun 'til her Daddy took the T-Bird (or DMVS) away!
Rat Patrolling along the Mexican border, climbing at Waco Tanks, the pretty girls in the "safe house" up in the hills.
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Old 09-20-2010, 11:38   #14
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Yep

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Originally Posted by Shadar View Post
The reason 5th moved to Campbell and not 3rd was a matter of logistics. The Senators won and A group was going to end up at Campbell.

Shader, don't forget that GEN-Ret Wickam wanted a group in his neighborhood too (he retired to Kentucky).

I also remember Prince Philip's staff saying they could never get the training areas they needed which was a damnable lie. So, like you said, 5th Grp moved from the deserts of Bragg to the deserts of Campbell instead of the deserts of Bliss.
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Old 12-29-2010, 05:44   #15
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Circa 1983

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.... 5th Group was a Desert Group. We had recently (within a year or two) moved from Smoke Bomb Hill to over by Pope to some delapitated WWII bldgs...............l

And just to put a date on the move 1st Bn and A/3/5th palletized for Bright Star '83 in the new - old - compound over by Pope.
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