Teachers with concealed weapons, not best idea

[Team Sergeant]

I think most of us would agree, that allowing teachers to carried concealed is allowing them the chance to protect themselves, and in turn, their classroom.

It should also allow for someone else to pick up their kids, drop them off , armed.

It should become a normal armed carry zone. That in itself would deter some of the cowards from going there with evil intent.

[PSM]

School Armory:

[Old Dog New Trick]

Originally Posted by PSM

School Armory:

What to do 1.2 million slightly used M9 pistols.

[Storm]

As for hardening schools, another note is that we need the right people designing these things. From what I have seen, there is no common sense whatsoever with these types of "hardenings," at least where I am currently at in New Jersey.

Our local school Board of Ed just spent a ridiculous amount of money creating a "protective vestibule" at the front entrance to the high school. As a local town councilman, I had the opportunity to go and view it, and afterwards we were encouraged to attend the BOE meeting. While they were proclaiming how much safer the school would be with the protective enclosure before entering the school, with the bulletproof glass, unarmed security guard, camera, etc....I made an unforced error, and asked a question.

I asked how the shiny new defensive vestibule was going to protect the 15 to 20 foot or so of glass windows on either side of it that have no protection, or the other 12 entrances to the school were going to be protected, of which, 10 were unlocked and accessible to anyone walking in off the street. 2 of these entrances are on either side of the front of the school, providing an immediate, and easily identifiable route to circumvent the new "protective vestibule."

At least they are jacking up their portion of the tax rate to the 2.5% cap limit again this year.

[Badger52]

Originally Posted by Storm

As for hardening schools, another note is that we need the right people designing these things. From what I have seen, there is no common sense whatsoever with these types of "hardenings," at least where I am currently at in New Jersey.

You're not alone. This doesn't just exist at local level with schools; it's a product of being behind the curve in threat assessment. One of the last projects I closed out at an Army base was a "new standards" post-9/11 design building that incorporated a boatload of "blast-resistant" glass on the exterior side of offices & created a nice single channelized halllway with 'nodes' off it. (I called them target clusters.) And the individual branch offices could not lock their doors from the inside if something came in off that hallway.

For those inside, looking at their handy DoD wallet-card, even the Incredible Hulk couldn't throw a desk chair through that new glass to escape. Employees were told to throw a stapler or something when the bad guy came in. Took me 2 years (making myself very unwelcome in certain circles) to get interior locks on those doors and only then because the SRC at Ft Sam happened.

IMO one of the mindset changes that has to happen is that people in schools (or someone they hire) must be willing to take their imagination to places they don't want to go. You cannot allow those who hold sway over such things to lapse backwards into "but we wish (along with saving the pink unicorns) we didn't have to do this."

[Old Dog New Trick]

Originally Posted by Storm

As for hardening schools, another note is that we need the right people designing these things. From what I have seen, there is no common sense whatsoever with these types of "hardenings," at least where I am currently at in New Jersey.

Our local school Board of Ed just spent a ridiculous amount of money creating a "protective vestibule" at the front entrance to the high school. As a local town councilman, I had the opportunity to go and view it, and afterwards we were encouraged to attend the BOE meeting. While they were proclaiming how much safer the school would be with the protective enclosure before entering the school, with the bulletproof glass, unarmed security guard, camera, etc....I made an unforced error, and asked a question.

I asked how the shiny new defensive vestibule was going to protect the 15 to 20 foot or so of glass windows on either side of it that have no protection, or the other 12 entrances to the school were going to be protected, of which, 10 were unlocked and accessible to anyone walking in off the street. 2 of these entrances are on either side of the front of the school, providing an immediate, and easily identifiable route to circumvent the new "protective vestibule."

At least they are jacking up their portion of the tax rate to the 2.5% cap limit again this year.

They must have hired an expert and former or current “director level” consultant from DHS/TSA. That sounds like the same kind of rational used to protect all sorts of National assets. Harden the front door but leave all the others open.

[Badger52]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

Harden the front door but leave all the others open.

Pick this man up & send him to the "We Are Customer-Oriented" re-education camp.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Originally Posted by Badger52

Pick this man up & send him to the "We Are Customer-Oriented" re-education camp.

But but but we have a diversity hiring program in place now. We hire straight outta Africa and West Asia and give them badges to protected and sensitive areas. It’s a business model where the people footing the bill get betrayed and harassed and are simply provide with a 1-800-EAT-SH!T customer service line.

I really think our liberal school administrators and city officials think the same way. Hey we got the levee approved to tax the county 2% more for school security so let’s show them what they got. Meanwhile the teachers get a small raise and a new microwave in the break room. Nothing changed nothing changes.

[Streck-Fu]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

I think it is far worse than that. They checked the box so they actually believe they did accomplish something. They are so stupid they can not reason someone would not come into the entrance they guarded and break the rules. Much like the gun debate. They can not get it in their heads someone gets a gun some other place than a gun store. Stupid is the only true definition. Ignorant means they lack knowledge, stupid means they are incapable of learning.

The equivalent:

[Ret10Echo]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

Exactly. I am not being sarcastic or joking in any way shape or form for once.

Post 9-11 we had the "homeland security" carpet-baggers unleashed across the U.S. and because there was no PLAN you ended up with fences that just "ended" and bulletproof doors mounted in balsa-wood frames.

Money spent.... Yaay.. "Victory"

Streck Fu.... I was thinking more like the attached: But yeah

[Old Dog New Trick]

No, liberalism is a mental illness and the ultimate decline in conscious thought and rational thinking.

To do the same thing over and over expecting a different result is insanity.

We have not only lied to ourselves now what the problem is and is not, we have spent billions on technology, training, and understanding what causes one person to become a homicidal psychopath and the others who go on living in a condition of suppressed mental acuity.

Back before background checks, before age limits, before waiting periods, before all of the anti-gunners passage of just one more (unenforceable) law. Humanity ruled!

There used be a moral compass that guided people to make decisions based on long standing rules of decency. In a community people joked or believed “that boy ain’t right in the head” and everyone watched out for him. No one would have allowed him to buy own or possess weapons of any kind. And if found to possess them stripped them away again and again until reaching the point that they could no longer control the village idiot. Village idiots didn’t live long and prosperous lives they died early or were not seen again. Some incarcerated some institutionalized...some just disappeared.

Now we let them roam free and no one is accountable for them. No one is responsible for making sure they take the medication that keeps them from going beyond the medicinally induced lethargy that life must be good. Whatever ails you these days there is a pill for that: bi-polar, psycho, other anti social psychotic behavior.

All the liberal utopian dreams of gun-control have failed! All the police training (money, time, and resources) on active shooter (those actively shooting and killing) drills and response to have failed. All of the good idea fairy dreams of banning purses, backpack, heavy coats...etc, at ball games and movie theaters and national landmarks have not deterred one (okay maybe one, the kid that blew himself up accidentally at the football game outside because he didn’t have a ticket) but all those others who were not dissuaded by laws, rules, and inconveniences placed on them by liberal talking heads.

Every single one of the shooters we know about right now who have either survived or died had red flags leading up to their carnage and assault on others. Every single one! Think about that for a moment. And yet all of them legally purchased the weapons they used from licensed gun dealers who I might add didn’t seem to care if that boy who just walked into their store “didn’t seem quite right in the head?” But hey he filled out the forms and passed the government watchdog lists (even they had recently been or currrently are being investigated by the FBI) it must be okay...his money is green.

But, let’s not address that issue let’s “ban guns” because that will fix all the other problems we don’t want to deal with. In fact banning guns will make it easier for the liberals to ultimately get what they (think) they want. CONTROL!

[tonyz]

We've already banned illegal drugs...
We've already banned illegal immigrants...

Could walk out my door and find both within 15 minutes...

We've already banned firearms on school grounds...
We've already banned discharging firearms inside city limits...
We've already banned murder...

How's that working out?

We once banned alcohol...

We know how that turned out.

[cbtengr]

So lets say we turn our schools into fortresses that defy invasion by the evil doers. How do we propose to adequately protect the masses during the CF that takes place at the height of arrivals in the morning and departures at the end of the day? The Vegas shooter did all his damage in the great outdoors.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Grazing fire is so much more effective than plunging fire.

Just sit outside the wire and wait for the afternoon bell to ring.

[tonyz]

Sort of like pushing a beach ball underwater...it’s gonna pop up somewhere...similar issue at airports...the lines and crowds at departures pre-security screening are significant and are NOT sterile.