crossfit/mass coexist?

reservetech · 05-13-2008, 09:01

Question for you experianced crossfit people. I understand that the mentality of crossfit is to strengthen the whole body, cardio and anero. I have followed the program for about a month now but I seem to be losing some muscle mass. This is disturbing to me because work hard to keep myself larger than my ectomorph frame naturaly allows. My question then becomes, has anyone had sucess with a crossfit AND weight training program (along the lines of high weight/ low rep for mass) and still avoided the overtraining. If so please direct me to this info.

P.S. I eat at least 3000cal/day (w/ a macro breakdown of 40%pro 30%carb 30%fat) being 5'6 160 10%bf (so nutritionaly I think i'm ok)

**Razor** · 05-13-2008, 12:26

I can't help you on the Crossfit thing, but I think the real question is why do you want to maintain lots of mass, assuming your strength/power remains somewhat stable?

reservetech · 05-13-2008, 13:10

My strength has been consistant, that much is true. Its the power that I'm losing (concurently with size). I want to know if anyone has been able to find an adequate ballance for the two. I have been training hard in both areas and I dont want to be shortchanging myself or overtraining.

Surgicalcric · 05-13-2008, 13:24

I found that I leaned out greatly when I did nothing but crossfit. While some guys are fine being lean I find I carry a ruck much easier when I have more muscle mass. I am one of those guys who can be lean and fast or muscular and a pack-mule which I will take any day of the week over being a speed demon. I am 5'6" 180 and am working to get back to the 190-200lb range.

I mix cross fit into my other routines but never do CF alone anymore.

OMMV

Crip

reservetech · 05-13-2008, 13:57

Crip, would you say that keeping a high mass would disable others or myself with this dilemma in the pipeline? I know that all shapes and sizes (besides fat bodies) make it through, so barring mental ability, what is the ideal SF body. We know what body makes a good linebacker, wrestler, sprinter and marathon runner, what is the formula for the SF soldier.

JacobGL · 05-13-2008, 14:38

Are you training at a crossfit gym or on your own? I have been doing strictly crossfit for about 3 weeks now and havent lost any mass. I may have lost power, but I wouldnt know because I havent been under a bench during these three weeks. I am lean to begin with 6'0'' 165 pds. Great question regarding ideal body type, hope a QP gets a chance to answer.

Surgicalcric · 05-13-2008, 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by reservetech

Crip, would you say that keeping a high mass would disable others or myself with this dilemma in the pipeline? I know that all shapes and sizes (besides fat bodies) make it through, so barring mental ability, what is the ideal SF body. We know what body makes a good linebacker, wrestler, sprinter and marathon runner, what is the formula for the SF soldier.

It really depends on the amount of body mass/muscle. Guys who look like Mr Olympia dont typically do very well however from the looks of your stats I wouldnt say thats a problem for you so dont worry about it unless you are trying to be Arnold.

On that note, there isnt a formula that I have seen and have found (in my limited experience) it is more dependent on the person, not the body type specifically as to who makes it and who doesnt. My team is mostly muscular guys with the Jr Bravo being the odd man out at 5'6"/160lbs. Other ODA's resemble 12 triathletes and others are a mix of both. Each bring strengths and weaknesses to the table and with that the vast majority have a desire to eliminate their weaknesses as much as possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JacobGL

...I am lean to begin with 6'0'' 165 pds...

I cant imagine any world where 6' 165# is lean. Sounds more like skinny to me, but then again I am a short guy..

Crip

**Razor** · 05-13-2008, 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by JacobGL

I may have lost power, but I wouldnt know because I havent been under a bench during these three weeks.

Remember, power is work divided by time, or in this case, the ability to move a specified weight through a range of motion in the shortest time possible. Unless you're doing timed speed reps on the bench, that exercise might not be the best measure of actual power.

JacobGL · 05-13-2008, 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crip

I cant imagine any world where 6' 165# is lean. Sounds more like skinny to me, but then again I am a short guy..

Crip

ouch

No really, I have tried many different work out routines and sports. I cant get past 175. I feel healthy at 165 and my pt scores don't suffer. Do you think I should have more mass going through the pipeline?

JacobGL · 05-13-2008, 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor

Remember, power is work divided by time, or in this case, the ability to move a specified weight through a range of motion in the shortest time possible. Unless you're doing timed speed reps on the bench, that exercise might not be the best measure of actual power.

You sound like a crossfit enthusiest Razor.

reservetech · 05-13-2008, 21:05

To answer your question GL, I am doing the cross fit and weight training on my own accord (albiet the weight training is in a fitness club, if thats what your asking). Razor, by power I think hes not refering to the physics definition, moreso the competitive powerlifting definition. Purely, how much weight you can sling for a given low # of reps.

**Razor** · 05-13-2008, 22:04

Actually, I'm not delving too deeply into physics, except for the basic understanding of power. I'm no powerlifter, but the fitness circles I frequent refer to power in terms of explosive movements, like an NFL lineman out of his stance, or a sprinter out of the blocks, or a boxer throwing a cross; in other words, functional, applicable power (often using a sports-related context). Think olympic lifts--cleans, snatches, jerks...moving a whole lot of weight explosively rather than slow, controlled reps. This translates into the ability to move quickly from a full stop, drive an obstacle out of your path while on the move, or deliver a decisive blow to a bad guy either dynamically or from a "sucker punch". Raw strength is good, but maximizing its delivery is a true force multiplier.

S3Project · 05-13-2008, 23:05

Razor is correct. The sport of powerlifting is poorly named and really has little to do with power generation; it's more the ability to exert force, regardless of time, that is judged.

Compare to Olympic weightlifting, where power generation is the primary concern. In fact, power generation, not maximal strength generation, is probably the most important strength-related attribute for many competitive athletes.

The distinction between "maximal strength" and "power" is important to understand for training programming. Strength and power are intertwined with one another, but they are nonetheless unique and distinct strength qualities that need separate attention and training methods.

sleepyhead4 · 05-13-2008, 23:30

Here's my personal opinion on the ideal body type for SFAS and Q course and crossfit vs. weight training.

First off, I've always been a smaller guy. I graduated high school weighing about 125 lbs at 5'9". All through college I was no heavier than 130 lbs. I even went through ranger school weighing less than 130 lbs, 128 lbs to be exact. However, I never had issues with rucking and keeping up with the small or big guys during training and deployments. This continued on with SFAS and the Q course. Even though I tried to gain weight by lifting more and running less, I never got past 150 lbs because of the Q course schedule. Needless to say, I completed the course without much physical disadvantage even with the lack of "mass." So after this long winded explanation, my opinion is that there is no ideal size for SF, or any MOS for that matter.

As for crossfit and weight training, I've been mixing both for few months with more emphasis on weight training. So far, I've seen gain in strength, power, and mass but that's pretty easy in my case since I basically started out with none of those. I've also maintained or increased my overall fitness level. I attribute that to crossfit. By putting emphasis on what I think is more important to me, I've seen improvements without overtraining. Like anything else, I don't think you can have you cake and eat it too. So decide which one is more important to you and do a little more of that than trying to achieve balance, which can lead to overtraining and less improvement.

Surgicalcric · 05-13-2008, 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by JacobGL

ouch

...Do you think I should have more mass going through the pipeline?

You are gonna need to grow some thick skin if my comment on your build got you worked up (as evidenced by your 'mad' smiley.) I assure you that you will get more of the same shortly.

As for your needing more mass for the course, I have already stated guys in the course and teams come in all shapes and sizes. You are the one who must decide whether you need to be larger or not, stronger or not, faster or not when the time comes for you to put out. Dont judge what you need to do on what others are doing, but by your own strengths and weaknesses.

I can attest to Sleepyhead4 being a smaller guy. However he somehow keeps up just fine with his guys...

Crip