Go Back   Professional Soldiers ® > Technical FAQ Forum > Technology News and Reviews

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-19-2014, 17:22   #1
MtnGoat
Quiet Professional
 
MtnGoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Asscrackistan
Posts: 4,289
Towards a Cyber Leader Course Modeled on Army Ranger School

Towards a Cyber Leader Course Modeled on Army Ranger School

http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art...-ranger-school

Trying to line this course up against Ranger, let along Sapper Courses is a joke. No desk clerk will be nothing close to what leadership qualities Ranger School produces. The military water downs everything they do. Also experience in doing the CNO, CDO, CISM and anything Cyber is the only thing that will produce a good cyber leader.

If I was a Wounded Warrior and being made to reclass or go into WWB. I would go to the Joint Cyber Analysis Course (JCAC) or the cryptologic network warfare specialist (35Q). Now this Cyber Leaders Course IMO will just water down any if not all of the industry certifications like CompTIA’s A+, Network+, and Security+, the EC-Council’s Certified Ethical Hacker (CEH), ISC2’s Certified Information Systems Security Professional (CISSP), and any kind of Black Hat Training. A E6/E7 needs to get out and go to the DEFCON, RED & BLACK HAT Conferences. Getting out into the industry circuits is just like 18 Series getting out to their MOS conferences and symposium circuits to develop their personal networks and knowledge base.
__________________
"Berg Heil"

History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over."

COLONEL BULL SIMONS

Intelligence failures are failures of command [just] as operations failures are command failures.”
MtnGoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 23:04   #2
Flagg
Area Commander
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGoat View Post
Towards a Cyber Leader Course Modeled on Army Ranger School

http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art...-ranger-school

Trying to line this course up against Ranger, let along Sapper Courses is a joke. No desk clerk will be nothing close to what leadership qualities Ranger School produces. The military water downs everything they do. Also experience in doing the CNO, CDO, CISM and anything Cyber is the only thing that will produce a good cyber leader.

If I was a Wounded Warrior and being made to reclass or go into WWB. I would go to the Joint Cyber Analysis Course (JCAC) or the cryptologic network warfare specialist (35Q). Now this Cyber Leaders Course IMO will just water down any if not all of the industry certifications like CompTIA’s A+, Network+, and Security+, the EC-Council’s Certified Ethical Hacker (CEH), ISC2’s Certified Information Systems Security Professional (CISSP), and any kind of Black Hat Training. A E6/E7 needs to get out and go to the DEFCON, RED & BLACK HAT Conferences. Getting out into the industry circuits is just like 18 Series getting out to their MOS conferences and symposium circuits to develop their personal networks and knowledge base.
What if instead of a Cyber Tab for leaders, a Cyber Course(intro component) for all?

I'm not suggesting "Every Marine a hacker".

Down here we do emphasise the "usual suspects" of marksmanship, communications, and first aid and have a basic doctrine not too dissimilar to the USMC with a bit of the "Every soldier a rifleman" ethos pursuit.

Basic soldier skills.

When does intro to cyber(specifically comfort with use/application of IT securely) become part of the basic soldier skillset?

And I mean VERY basic intro.

-----

As for the rest, I'm no alphanerd, but wouldn't attendance at civvie IT security conferences as you suggested and the high level lateral thinking problem solving competitions replicated back at unit level training have value?

Or what about a national/federal IT security conference/competition only for those with clearance?

More like Best Cyber to Best Ranger competition, rather than Cyber Tab to Ranger Tab.
Flagg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 06:12   #3
MtnGoat
Quiet Professional
 
MtnGoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Asscrackistan
Posts: 4,289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flagg View Post
What if instead of a Cyber Tab for leaders, a Cyber Course(intro component) for all?

I'm not suggesting "Every Marine a hacker".

Down here we do emphasise the "usual suspects" of marksmanship, communications, and first aid and have a basic doctrine not too dissimilar to the USMC with a bit of the "Every soldier a rifleman" ethos pursuit.

Basic soldier skills.

When does intro to cyber(specifically comfort with use/application of IT securely) become part of the basic soldier skillset?

And I mean VERY basic intro.

-----

As for the rest, I'm no alphanerd, but wouldn't attendance at civvie IT security conferences as you suggested and the high level lateral thinking problem solving competitions replicated back at unit level training have value?

Or what about a national/federal IT security conference/competition only for those with clearance?

More like Best Cyber to Best Ranger competition, rather than Cyber Tab to Ranger Tab.
I think, damn hope so, this CYBER tab is just an metaphor of how these writers feel the importance of this schooling. It was hard enough, I think over ten years for the Sapper Tab to come around.

Yes civilian training and experience is where I feel they need to go to. But we every A++, network +, or security + certificate I believe may just get out. So we don't have mid and upper level leaders with the knowledge and experience behind them. No shit because you're brand new field and you need a clear career path. You need people we experience. The military is cutting back, well he these people use their tuition assistance funds to obtain the certificates and go to the civilian Schooling. It will come out of a different pot of money and provide what is needed. The military can teach a key skill set, as HUMINT collection or mapping out a cyber information network system. It's all collection, but really knowing how to do it is only through experience. Once a guy knows how to collect, look around and obtain the need information they need to get how and do real world to obtain experience in collection.

As far as
Quote:
what about a national/federal IT security conference/competition only for those with clearance?
I have been told USG does have these. But what Commander is going to send a enlisted (E3-E5) to say DC, Vegas, Miami or Denver for a conference or symposium? I don't say many. Also these conference or symposium should be done on a VTC so anyone can watch them at home station and use some kind of Jabber IM communication to "chime" in. Yes are worker eyes need to go TDY to these conference or symposium for the networking, ties and education.

Much as this one last week. Do you send people that are doing the work or a Commander? http://business.kaspersky.com/kaspersky-enterprise/

It is a double edge sword, Leaders and Commanders need to know what is what to give the approval for missions. Yet you need skilled and knowledgeable individuals too. Not having Commanders knowledgeable in IC matters, such as HUMINT Collection is painful. So I see the need for them to go too.

Yet even us SOF fail at the cross pollenization of information between elements and units. So you think a bunch a cyber geeks will do it. No I feel as with any military only the upper leadership, Officers and Key players get to do, go or attend the events that are important. That's why these writers feel there is a need for a new leadership level course in the cyber fields. Which is likely VERY true.
__________________
"Berg Heil"

History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over."

COLONEL BULL SIMONS

Intelligence failures are failures of command [just] as operations failures are command failures.”

Last edited by MtnGoat; 04-20-2014 at 07:09.
MtnGoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2014, 12:18   #4
keeper
Asset
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3
2 cents

Though I am not a QP I feel I can weigh in on this discussion since this was my area of expertise when I was in the Air Force.

After reading the article it seems to me the idea of a cyber tab is to help intelligence forces feel more involved with combat forces and increase moral in the intelligence field which has issues shedding quality members to civilian contractors. Like the OP mentioned courses like JCAC are already in place for people to acquire the knowledge needed to be a cyber warrior. I find it interesting too because JCAC is a major improvement on the courses which preceded it and is itself a new course. There is already an over abundance of certifications in this field and instead of narrowing it down the army seems to see fit to increase the options so soldiers do not have a clear career path.

I'm curious how much redundancy this is going to create and if those who have completed JCAC, BDNA, IDNA, Black hat or the many other courses available to this field will learn anything new.
__________________
There is only one way to avoid criticism: do nothing, say nothing, and be nothing. –Aristotle
keeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2014, 12:29   #5
SF_BHT
Quiet Professional
 
SF_BHT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sneaking back and forth across the Border
Posts: 6,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by keeper View Post
Though I am not a QP I feel I can weigh in on this discussion since this was my area of expertise when I was in the Air Force.

After reading the article it seems to me the idea of a cyber tab is to help intelligence forces feel more involved with combat forces and increase moral in the intelligence field which has issues shedding quality members to civilian contractors. Like the OP mentioned courses like JCAC are already in place for people to acquire the knowledge needed to be a cyber warrior. I find it interesting too because JCAC is a major improvement on the courses which preceded it and is itself a new course. There is already an over abundance of certifications in this field and instead of narrowing it down the army seems to see fit to increase the options so soldiers do not have a clear career path.

I'm curious how much redundancy this is going to create and if those who have completed JCAC, BDNA, IDNA, Black hat or the many other courses available to this field will learn anything new.
The Army is not the AF. Look at what a joke the Cyber badge for the AF turned out to be. We do not need more TABS. They need to earn favor by doing their job and showing they can impact external efforts. Every one does not need a badge/tab/ribbon for everything they do. It is sort of like giving the kids all a trophy no matter what place they finish. That only breeds weak minded people not Warriors.
SF_BHT is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:04.



Copyright 2004-2022 by Professional Soldiers ®
Site Designed, Maintained, & Hosted by Hilliker Technologies