10-06-2007, 17:51
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#1
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: No. Va
Posts: 407
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Questions about Flame resistant clothing - Nomex, Carbon X
Does anyone have recommendations for cold weather, flame resistant long underwear? I've already replaced my silk-weight polypro with Smartwool for the next-to-skin base layer. Smartwool is not specifically flame/heat resistant but since it's wool it's better than standard synthetics.
However, I'm starting to think if might be worth it to by a set of nomex or Carbon X long underwear that offers more protection. Is anyone wearing this overseas?
A nomex flightsuit is another option but my assumption is that it would defeat the purpose to wear shrink-wrap polypro underneath it. Correct me if I'm wrong. The same may apply to your base layer. Is there any point of having a good flame heat resistant base layer like Carbon X if I wear a layer of synthetic snivel gear on top of it?
Thanks.
Last edited by Leozinho; 10-06-2007 at 17:58.
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Leozinho is offline
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10-06-2007, 20:35
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#2
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Asset
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Playin in the sand
Posts: 11
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Leozinho,
The Carbon-X material seems to work very well, at least from what I have gotten to see. Read an article that was doing head to head testing of the various products a while back, but can't seem to find it. Some of them didn't fare too well at that time. A company called Massif Mountain Gear ( www.massif.com) has come out with some interesting looking stuff, though I have no experience with it.
Having seen first hand what happens with the shrink wrapping effect I wouldn't want it on even with a base layer underneath. At a minimum it would increase the potential burn risk, and be pretty warm for a bit. Hope that helps and crawling back into my hole,
Desertmedic
PS if the link is innapropriate please advise and it will be deleted.
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desertmedic is offline
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10-10-2007, 14:39
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#3
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Harrisburg PA
Posts: 864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leozinho
A nomex flightsuit is another option but my assumption is that it would defeat the purpose to wear shrink-wrap polypro underneath it.
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My squadron freaked when they found out some of us were wearing poly-pro long underwear under our flightsuits while flying. I didn't know the hazards, but once I was briefed, I took them off and wore the issue nomex longjohns I was issued.
I'd be interested in finding some cold weather flame resistant stuff, too!
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Monsoon65 is offline
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10-10-2007, 16:56
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#4
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,780
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Silks are great thin layers, and there are some very nice wools that do not itch or chafe.
I quit wearing polypro on MFF jumps when I saw a piece burn. No thanks!
TR
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The Reaper is offline
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10-10-2007, 22:18
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#5
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Asset
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hill country
Posts: 18
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Our company has issued Nomex cold weather clothing and gear for working outside in the arctic in Alaska'a North Slope (-40F or worse in the winter) for the last 13 years or so. Some divisions have been using it for much longer. At first we all hated it, but we've come around. There are rules about what kind of underlayers you can wear for fire safety and we have witnessed first hand that the Nomex works well in fire and poly doesn't. It is warm, but takes a bit of getting used to if you work hard and risk sweating. It doesn't breathe the same as other fabrics. You also have to keep it clean to maintain the fire resistance. Oil and grease will ruin the fire retardant properties.
DuPont's website may have the information on what combinations work.
http://www2.dupont.com/Nomex/en_US/u...rotection.html
I hope this is useful, back to reading.....
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Indian is offline
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10-11-2007, 06:26
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#6
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Guerrilla
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NC
Posts: 143
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You could go and talk to the local fire department guys and they will tell you the pros and cons of the various types of fire resistant materials. They will not be able to suggest what to use but they can tell you what not use.
If they cant help let me know.
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cold1 is offline
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10-11-2007, 10:48
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 4,511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
...and there are some very nice wools that do not itch or chafe.
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I have a real soft spot for wool (maybe growing up in the woods of Maine has something to do with that). The comfort of wool garments has come a long way since I was a kid. Look into Icebreaker, Ibex, Smartwool and Kuehl for decent Merino wool insulating layers. I still like the old issued brown 5-button wool sweater and a wool scarf for those colder days.
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Razor is offline
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10-22-2007, 17:55
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#8
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: email: militarymorons@gmail.com
Posts: 153
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leozinho, i've found massif hotjohns and flamestretch (warmer) long underwear to be some of the most comfortable clothing i've worn, FR or otherwise. i've some information on my site, written from my civilian point of view.
http://www.militarymorons.com/gear/FRclothes.html
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militarymoron is offline
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10-22-2007, 20:11
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#9
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Asset
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Camp Slayer-VBC
Posts: 42
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Last year at the SHOT Show in Orlando, I came across a company called Potomac Field Gear. They had some sport like shirts that they were displaying at the show and it caught my eye because O-5 USAF buddy of mine who was in charge of a certain heavy lift special Sqdrn was looking for just something like this. I gathered as much info as I could and bought a shirt from them.
I passed the info on to the good Ltc. and he got some for his men. They tested them, and they apparently passed because they bought more of them.
here is their web address: www.potomacfieldgear.com
The label that came with the shirt states:
-Fire Resistant
-Moisture Wicking
-Anti-Odor
-Anti-Microbial
-Anti-Static
Hopefully this helps someone.
Y-
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yasnevo is offline
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10-22-2007, 21:18
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#10
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Central TX
Posts: 1,390
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Not really Base Layer stuff, but I have worn some of True North Gear's Dragon Fur Nomex Fleece and it is pretty nice. They apparently have a new line of Military/LE stuff Here
HTH
Good times,
Blake
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Air.177 is offline
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10-28-2007, 11:48
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#11
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Guest
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For anyone wearing nomax coveralls. Do not wear them while doing any welding. The sparks from a welder is enough to burn holes into the fabric . Makes you wonder about the fire proffing. The reality is that they are designed for flash burns/fires only.
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01-08-2008, 12:26
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#12
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Aberdeen, NC
Posts: 397
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TRY "XGO FR garments"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leozinho
Does anyone have recommendations for cold weather, flame resistant long underwear? I've already replaced my silk-weight polypro with Smartwool for the next-to-skin base layer. Smartwool is not specifically flame/heat resistant but since it's wool it's better than standard synthetics.
However, I'm starting to think if might be worth it to by a set of nomex or Carbon X long underwear that offers more protection. Is anyone wearing this overseas?
A nomex flightsuit is another option but my assumption is that it would defeat the purpose to wear shrink-wrap polypro underneath it. Correct me if I'm wrong. The same may apply to your base layer. Is there any point of having a good flame heat resistant base layer like Carbon X if I wear a layer of synthetic snivel gear on top of it?
Thanks.
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A company named Longworth (West End, NC) produces a line of undergarments for military use under the "XGO" trade name.
XGO FR is available in: T-Shirt (Long / Short sleeve), Boxers, Longjohns, and balaclava.
Great stuff. It has similar properties to nomex, but is a much more comfortable fabric. No shoulder seams, double stiched and is breaths well / transfers sweat.
The marines use Potomac Mills under garments, but their products contain nylon and don't breath.
SF groups are just starting to procure XGO for deploying units.
It is available on GSA advantage for unit / govt card buys as well.
Hope that helps someone not to have future skin graphs.
MC
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mcarey is offline
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01-09-2008, 09:29
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#13
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SF Candidate
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 28
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Description from the Potomac Field Gear site:
-garment will self extinguish once the source of ignition is removed - certified as non-melt and non-drip
-comparable to Under Armour®'s Heat Gear
-X-Static technology dramaticallly reduces the body odor and destroys a wide variety of harmful bacteria including Corynebacterium diphtheriae, Pseudomonas aeruginosa, Klebsiella pneumoniae and Staphylococcus aureus
-the fabric can take a 5,000 volt charge and decay it to 500 volts in .01 second and enhancing its safety in explosive, fuel rich and sensitive electronic environments.
Honestly, I am interested. I'm not at all qualified to advise anyone on this site. But for the listed prices, I see these products as venerable replacements for my polypro collection. Becoming a quesadilla is not on my top 10 list of things to do.
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systaltic is offline
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05-24-2008, 21:07
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#14
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Asset
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Tidewater
Posts: 41
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Doesn't it make you go "hmmm" when they feel they have to compare their product to someone else's?
I have seen their "no melt, no drip" Looks like it melts to me.
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Capt_G is offline
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07-22-2008, 19:42
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#15
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Asset
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4
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FR Underwear
and the cold are a strange mix. Anytime you have a high nylon content your going to hold water, nomex doesnt breath and do you really need FR next to skin? In a cold wx environment i would suggest no, use your regular warm base layer that moves moisture and keeps you dry. With all of your outer garments if your base layer gets hot enough to melt, your respitory system is gone anyway. I ahve been looking at this stuff for a little while now and your biggest threat in FR is after ied iniation and flameover how long does your outter garment last. Nomex and Mod Acrylics are made to take the flame, absorb the heat and change state, well during that change the fiber becomes brittle. Burn an old flight suit and then abraid it, the fiber fails. Well now think aobut the ied as the iniation of the event adn your in the mix for anohter 8-12 hours, all the while your uniform is falling off of youm that would be my worry!!
No disrespect to the comment on UA, but wearing UA kit inthe field is a little weak. Take teh cold gear for instance, compression. Wear it in the cold some day and when you take it off your skin temp is cold, the compression took away your surface veinous flow. Well if your skin temp is cold there is no pressure diff to push moisture out thru the rest of the clothing system and therefor you trap all of your moisture in the system, you get colder and possibly hype out. Simple physics, it doesn't work for ops of any duration. Check it out sometime.
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