Precision Rifle Sling

[Peregrino]

UPS was good to me today. Almost everything met or exceeded expectations. Unfortunately the sling I ordered for my bolt gun is a major disappointment. It's the Tactical Intervention Quick Cuff, Model One, Black. http://www.tacticalintervention.com/...gmodelone.html

While the concept is good, the execution of this example leaves a lot to be desired. In fact, it's going back with the morning mail. When I'm looking at a tactical sling, I expect quality along the lines of Eagle, Wilderness, or Blue Force products and this sling does not measure up. The nylon webbing is very lightweight; I've got Chinese made luggage straps with less flex. Sewing quality is "average"; definitely not something that came out of a rigger's shop. The write-up said the Model One sling swivels were permanently mounted - not true. They're threaded on just like anybody else's. The sling swivels themselves are lightweight. I can't find any markings to identify them but they look like the bottom of the line "Uncle Mike's"; fine for a plinker, not what I want on a tactical rifle. For the price (list $65.00) I was expecting something of the quality of Uncle Mike's Mil-Spec Swivels. In contrast, the metal ring at the adjustment point is almost heavy enough to be used for mountaineering. The sling keepers are metal, nice enough quality, can't complain about anything but having to tape metal hardware. The cuff, which is the feature that attracted my interest is the same webbing as the rest of the sling, with velcro sandwiched to it to size/secure the cuff. Too narrow and flexible without some type of padding underneath it. It also has a Fastex buckle so it can be worn on the shooter's arm and clipped onto the sling when additional support (sling supported) is desired. It does function as intended (the manufacturer's literature at the web site goes into great detail). Like I said; good idea, uninspired execution.

In all fairness, I did not buy this from the manufacturer. I've been aware of the product for a couple of years, wanted a new sling and added it to a Brownells order on impulse. The manufacturer lists a mil-spec (M-24 contract sling) that was not available from Brownells that might have met my expectations, though frankly, I'm no longer interested in finding out. FWIW I'm going back to my Turner Biothane sling and I'll just have to put up with the hassles until something more convenient comes along. (Suggestions anyone? ) If anybody has positive comments about the mil-spec version that they want to contribute, it would make an interesting counterpoint to my experience. Peregrino

[Snaquebite]

I have one of the original NRA models of this type sling. I believe it was used by the military also back in the 60's and maybe 70's on the marksmanship units. It consists of the arm cuff and sling that is adjustable for each shooter. Once adjusted it can be disconnected from th cuff and weapon. Of course then it was made of leather. I still use it today. I'll get a picture and post it up. I've looked for a replacement but always found that newer models were either too flimsy or too stiff. The concept is great. Just needs a lot more tweaking. Until I can find one that is better I'll continue using my leather one.

[The Reaper]

I have one that the designer gave me a couple of years ago (and I think you saw) and the quality on the version you described sounds totally different. Maybe it is the Military version. Would be happy to loan it to you to T&E.

Sorry that they have decided to cut corners and cheapen the product.

My apologies if I contributed to this mistake.

TR

[Peregrino]

TR - Not a problem and certainly not your fault. You may be the one that got me thinking about the product but I'm the one that bought it. Caveat Emptor. It has been a while since I've seen yours, but I recall being intrigued by the concept (and not having any comments one way or the other about the product's quality/worksmanship). I would have to see it again to determine if the quality has changed or if you have a different model. We need to do a range day anyway (when the weather is more agreeable). Personally, I think I can come up with a better product than what I received using odds and ends I have laying around the house.

Snaquebite - Got to love a quality leather sling. I've never found a manmade product to compete. The Biothane comes close and makes up for it's shortcomings by being low/no maintenance and virtually indestructable. Unfortunately it's a PITA to adjust/get in and out of - problems I was hoping the TIQC would solve. I want something that combines the qualities of a tactical sling and a match sling. Guess I'll have to keep looking.

Peregrino

[Snaquebite]

I agree about the leather. Now you've got me thinking (which could be dangerous) Since I do some leatherwork, I'm thinking about a design that could incorporate maybe a velcro fastener replacing the buckles on the arm cuff.... and maybe a different design for the sling... Guess I have a new shop project.

[Gene Econ]

Originally Posted by Peregrino

Personally, I think I can come up with a better product than what I received using odds and ends I have laying around the house.
Peregrino

Peregrino:

You come up with something and send me a copy please. I have one of the slings you are mentioning. The guy who came up with the idea gave me one that he made about ten years ago. This one is real sturdy. The only problem with it is that it is way too short. I screwed around with it for hours and it was so short that I couldn't even use it seated or kneeling.

It is a great concept for tactical shooting IMHO. Far superior to any issued sling and extremely fast to use. Just clip one fastex device and you are in a loop sling. Very fast to adjust -- pull on a loop to tighten while in position. Takes a second maybe.

Gene

[82ndtrooper]

Not sure if this is the type of sling your looking for, but I have it on a Les Baer Thunder Ranch. Biothane with fairly stong mounts. It hasn't failed me.

Link here:

turnersling.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TS&Product_Code =NMSRAWS

[Gene Econ]

Originally Posted by 82ndtrooper

Not sure if this is the type of sling your looking for, but I have it on a Les Baer Thunder Ranch. Biothane with fairly stong mounts. It hasn't failed me. Link here: turnersling.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TS&Product_Code =NMSRAWS

82nd Trooper:

Negative -- not the same sling. The one we are talking about is easy to get into and adjust, and was designed about ten years ago as opposed to 1907.

I am curious though. What does a "Les Bear Thunder Ranch" have to do with an obsolete sling design?

Gene

[Peregrino]

Gene - Don't thump him too hard. I shot service rifle yesterday and didn't have a choice but to use my "100 y/o" sling. The TIQC went back Friday and as soon as I have the time I'll start work on a replacement. Any preferences for match slings? I'm going to need one in the near future.

Also got to wring-out the Freeland Tripod Scope Stand I bought to replace my starter stand. For the price, it worked very well. The skinny rod is a little "whippy" (as expected) but I'm happy and it was < 1/2 the price of the Creedmore "Big Blue". The old bipod stand and Bushnell scope now go on to teach the next generation (nieces).

That was yesterday, today we head for the gun show - my brother has to get the lowers for the uppers I'm having built for his daughters. Peregrino

[longrange1947]

I am curious as to what is going on here. SOTIC has been using that sling in field conditions for the past 4-5 years without failure to the sling. The slings are made with top notch nylon and stitching. The sling swivles are the one piece that jsut absolutely does not fail.

We have not ordered any slings for about a year, but I can not see that much of a drop in quality control over that time period. The slings we have are issued and reissued five times during a course. They are used throughout the course.

My only thought is that the owner, Mike M., has been doing contracts out of country and is sub contracting his slings.

Peregrino - stop by the office and look at ours and see if it is the same quality that you got. I am really curious as to the differences in the slings.

[Peregrino]

LR1947 - I'll give you a call next week. I'm curious too. According to what I've been able to determine, the MILSPEC (M24 Contract) sling is different from the Model 1 that I received. The one I got did not have the one piece sling swivels, the webbing was thin enough to crease if twisted/folded, and the stitching was "uninspiring". It was at least as flexible as the black military webbing slings they issue with the M-16s (does anybody actually use them any more?). My .02 - and FWIW I am disappointed it didn't meet expectations. Peregrino

[Gene Econ]

Originally Posted by Peregrino

Gene - Don't thump him too hard. I shot service rifle yesterday and didn't have a choice but to use my "100 y/o" sling. The TIQC went back Friday and as soon as I have the time I'll start work on a replacement. Any preferences for match slings? I'm going to need one in the near future.

Also got to wring-out the Freeland Tripod Scope Stand I bought to replace my starter stand. For the price, it worked very well. The skinny rod is a little "whippy" (as expected) but I'm happy and it was < 1/2 the price of the Creedmore "Big Blue". The old bipod stand and Bushnell scope now go on to teach the next generation (nieces).

That was yesterday, today we head for the gun show - my brother has to get the lowers for the uppers I'm having built for his daughters. Peregrino

Peregrino:

Yesterday we ran a high power clinic. I honchoed the training and had seven High Master shooters as coaches. Three times I had to get involved with the Sling M-1907 and all three times that thing proved to be nothing short of a PITA. Adjust sling, get into position only to find the sling too tight or too loose. Totally get out of position and re-adjust then try again. Even when using the USMC style of loop that lets the shooter adjust length with relative ease -- the shooter still fights with mashing frogs into holes that are too small or slings that are too stiff.

I am not sure if you ever broke in a leather M-1907. If so -- cool. If not -- for those who are interested here is what we would do. We would soak the sling in neetsfoot oil and then hang it with a ten pound weight for a couple of days to stretch it out so it won't stretch when in position. Yes, leather slings stretch if not pre-stretched like we had to do with the MRT slings. We would then go over all the holes and open them up a little so the frog would be easier to adjust. Then we would put some binding tape around the keepers so they wouldn't stretch over the frogs. The biothane M-1907 that 82nd Trooper uses is a much better bet than the leather M-1907's. The Turner leather M-1907 is a far better bet than the MRT M-1907's.

For Service Rifle I use a ten dollar M-1 Garand web sling as you can adjust it while in position. For Match Rifle I use a Tubb match rifle sling. I think it is about the easiest match rifle sling to adjust while in position. I have broken a number of MRT slings and canvas slings. I haven't come close to breaking a match rifle sling.

I have a Big Blue stand and like it because it is heavy enough to take some wind. The turret is also real easy to adjust while in position. I am always hitting the spotting scope or tripod so for me, having one that won't tip over is more important than weight. I like the Freeland stands because you can adjust the legs to lift the stand above irregularities in the ground. Real handy in field fire conditions.

Gene

[Peregrino]

OK Guys - An update. Yesterday I had the pleasure of lunch with LR1947. It was the price I paid to persuade him to let me examine the MILSPEC version of the TI sling. (Yes, he can be bribed - and this time it was relatively inexpensive, course he wouldn't let me keep the sling. ) IMHO the MILSPEC version is "somewhat" improved over the Model One that started this thread. The webbing, hardware, and velcro were the same; the stitching was generally neater, and it was tan instead of black. The most significant upgrade was the sling swivels. It uses the one piece Talon QR swivels http://www.outdoorconnection.com/pro...alon/talon.htm. They impressed me enough that I will be purchasing several pairs to upgrade slings on a couple of my bolt guns.

After my experiences I would recommend anyone who has a requirement for this capability/type of sling (and can't/don't want to make one themselves) order the MILSPEC version directly from TI. Overall I think it's a good concept (that I haven't seen anywhere else). I just wasn't happy with the execution of the example I purchased. Again, thanks to LR1947 for giving me the opportunity to look at the MILSPEC version. Lunch was a cheap price to pay for good company and an opportunity to make sure I had fair/unbiased reporting. FWIW - Peregrino

[frostfire]

don't want to start a new thread in the medic since it's somehow sling related so here goes:

How long is the max time for the left (gloved) hand to stay in position with the sling ($10 Garand sling) on?

I was dry-firing in different positions. When I got to prone, I got too 'obsessed' with the prep for a rattle battle and spent either 35min or 1 hour+ in position. Since then and for the last 12 hours, the left hand has been having that numb, tingling sensation like when your hand recovers after being asleep. I sure hope the nerve cells are not permanently giving up after being deprived from O2 and nutrients.

Also, if I may ask, how long did it take for you to get your master/high master classification? Rick, Gene, Peregrinon or anyone else?

[brianksain]

Peregrino,

I know the maker personally.

My sniper teams copies are all heavy duty products as LR describes.

No probs thus far with those on my knucklehead's sticks.

bk