Deportation

[Penn]

Target MS-13 and other Criminal elements
https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ic...ctive-detainer

No problem with the above enforcement.

With that in mind, let’s review a less compelling situation.

A married father of two American born high school boys, 17 & 13 years of age. Father has worked his entire career for one company, on a “work permit” issue by the US. He is a trusted employee, often given responsibility for daily operations of the company and execution of all work orders.

His Sons are A+ students. Mom also works, and is involved in everyday decisions with relation to her sons, the schools district, and the local PTA.

The sons are well mannered, and hold part time jobs in addition to being involved in doing good. For example, the oldest, grew his hair out over a 3-year period, it was a thick black mane of glorious perfect DNA related to that ethnic group. He took a lot of ribbing at school, when asked why he was not cutting his hair, he stated he was growing it to donate to create wigs fir kids with cancer undergoing chemo.

When asked if he told anyone at school, he stated no.
The father was pick up by ICE three weeks-ago. He was a week late renewing his work permit. When asked why he was a week late, he was afraid to go to the center to renew for fear of being deported.

When Ice came to his house, he ran, fearing his wife would be deported also, leaving their two sons to community service programs. So like a hen with chicks he ran to divert the fox, jumping into the Delaware River @ 28 ^F, to escape.
Luckily, for all involved he was rescued and detained.

Which brings me to this question, what are we doing? This is low hanging fruit. A work permit not renewed is easy, all address info is on file, easy to find individual, but by all standards, not a criminal, anyone who has been issued a work permit has been compliant with rules and regulation for being here, and examples an individual that is working within the system to conform. Why imprison and deport them?

What’s the gain?

In the short term, the administration lives up to its campaign rhetoric, but long term the results of such action impact base level sociological allegiance. This “group” did this to my family!

Go back and read what the values of this family are. Is this not what we want? It certainly is more in-line with western values then most of the refugees that are being resettled here Carte Blanche.

We are shooting ourselves in the electoral head. If we want to control the future of our country, we need to embrace the Judea-Christian illegals that are here with open arms and find a way to put families first, before racking up deportation numbers to satisfy campaign promises.

A reminder: http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ht=Deportation

[Penn]

Your reply is why Republicans will not hold a long term influence in America.

For the record: "two American born sons," US Citizens.

Your go "fuck them" attitude, solves nothing.

In my simple mind, the goal is the welfare of mine and your great grand children,
building the influence of the party, and hence the control or a reasonable amount of influence nationally.

The entire campaign rhetoric played to out groups competing for limited resources. Trump catered to out groups in Pennsylvania, Florida, Ohio, Wisconsin, Iowa and Michigan, and he won, by using the disparity between groups to create a wedge to divide and swing the democratic vote. It worked.

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37889032

But what about 2018 and beyond? Your go fuck them is like pissing in the wind. Unless its a short term bathing strategy, it builds zero foundation for future gains.
Its a heartless policy that will back fire on the republican party long term.

[SF0]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

I deal in facts not feelings. The FACT is he chose not to renew his visa. He made the decision to violate a law of the land. If it was a bureaucratic snafu I would have sympathy but it is not so tough shit. What if he committed a rape or robbery would you feel the same? What part of he knowingly violated the laws of this country is not clear?

As for MS-13 they are nothing less than narc o terrorists and should be treated as such ie an invading foreign army. As far as I am concerned CAG along with the CIA should hunt them down and kill or capture them. For the ones they capture no prison for them, put them in front of a military tribunal and execute them as the terrorists they are. seem harsh? Go see their "work" and talk to the families of their victims, that is if there are any left because they kill entire families for retaliation including women, children and babies. I have seen their work and it is not pretty.

Start thinking logically instead of emotionally. I realize you have a big heart and want to do the right thing, but don't let the media commie psyops manipulate you.

Penn's post actually seems devoid of emotion, as it is addressing a strategic level, long term problem. Your post reeks of feeling and emotion, even if that is not the case. I agree with Penn. 8 years of leftist vitriol awarded them with President Trump- literally their worst nightmare. It is apparent that liberals still have not learned from their mistakes. Will conservatives?

[SF0]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

"Please explain to me why and what criteria we should use, not to enforce the laws equally to people who knowingly and purposely violate it. It is simple as that.

I do not believe so. The fundamentals of justice in our country are in part guided by the discretion we give to our Judiciary branch, as well as law enforcement. The Founding Fathers well understood that men are not and cannot be unthinking embodiments of iron law- if that idea were to be true, they would never have dared rebelling against the crown. Robotic, zero tolerance policies are more the purview of the far left.

[Penn]

Its not that simple.

The FACT is he chose not to renew his visa.

1. He was one week late renewing his work permit.
2. He's had a work permit for 17 years. Always renewed.

That being true, why would he not renew, what pressures, (all inclusive) life issues, would cause someone, particularly in this political climate, with a 17 year record of renewal, risk it?

Fear,made his decision, mongering and resentfulness he felt directed towards him, and those like him. That, distrust was reflected back, by his thinking that he be arrested renewing, so in his mind not renewing was lower risk.

Not criminal activity.

[Penn]

With all due respect, legal definitions and culturally infused decisions are that of the court at the time those decisions were made.

It does not mean decision are applicable to all and evenly distributed.

A Justice always considers the socioeconomic and historical factors.

If you agree, please go back and read the assessment of this deportee and his family. Knowing what you know, as a judge, make a decision that satisfies all stakeholders?

Edit to add: and reason your reply.

[SF0]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

You did not answer my question. We are talking specially about someone who knowingly and wanly violated a specific law and was arrested for it. We are not talking about extenuating circumstances. Please answer my question. What criteria should we use in this specific circumstances to not enforce the law? Remember no one is supposed to be above the law is another fundamental idea of our founding fathers.

In this instance, I doubt it has been addressed in depth with existing case law, but I suspect it will be soon. Credible Fear laws are well established for foreign nationals afraid of certain circumstances in their own nation, but not to my knowledge addressed by established workers afraid of persecution in the host nation. Personally I believe the most reasonable way of approaching it is to do what courts do daily across the nation- taking it on a case by case basis, barring any minimum mandatory punishments. If the individual has shown no issue in the past years with renewing his work permit, there should be no reason to assume nefarious purposes.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Originally Posted by Penn

Its not that simple.



1. He was one week late renewing his work permit.
2. He's had a work permit for 17 years. Always renewed.

That being true, why would he not renew, what pressures, (all inclusive) life issues, would cause someone, particularly in this political climate, with a 17 year record of renewal, risk it?

Fear,made his decision, mongering and resentfulness he felt directed towards him, and those like him. That, distrust was reflected back, by his thinking that he be arrested renewing, so in his mind not renewing was lower risk.

Not criminal activity.

You are right, it's not that simple.

Whether the problem is the lawful and justified enforcement of the law or, the unjustified and nearly criminal rhetoric of the Left, special interest groups like RAZA, and the champions of social justice congressional and mayoral members - Democrats.

While this father knowingly jeopardized his own standing he also put his family at risk over fear. Fear being promoted as a political tool from the left.

Many don't realize this but Obama was the deporter in chief. As with all things run through his transparent administration he quietly deported hundreds of thousands of people just like this father for violating the laws and rules that allowed him to be here. We just didn't hear about it.

Personally I don't think we should be spending the money or the resources to track these violators down. Issue a federal bench warrant and if they get picked up by the police for a crime or traffic infraction - process them at a deportation facility or make them pay a steep fine and release them.

Note: the fine for being late is much less than the fine and potential probability that you will be deported if arrested for a crime and are not here with any legal protections. (Note: you either have legal protections afforded to you or you do not. There is no gray area in the law. You are or were here "legally" at the time or you were not and never were given those rights and protections because you are "illegal" your entire entry and occupation is a trespass and should be handled as a criminal trespass. Asked to leave voluntarily, told to leave - forcefully if needed, or rounded up, incarcerated during due process and removed from the land you trespassed on by any means necessary: even at financial cost to self, family, or country of origin. If at any point you (the illegal trespasser have used force or threatened another with bodily injury, physical harm, or death then by Constitutional authority and the right of self-protection any American has the legal right to shoot you where you stand without fear of legal consequences or repercussions of the law.)


Amazing that we give a driver's license back to a convicted DUI driver (one that has caused injury or death to another) or a return a confiscated firearm from police custody to a mentally unstable nut case and domestic abuser (Fort Lauderdale shooter) and yet we spend untold millions of dollars to round up and send low wage workers and otherwise known as illegal humans back across the muddy river or invisible line in the sand. The businesses, the farmers, and the human traffickers all only get a slap on the wrist when caught. It's big business and the Democrats love to support businesses that donate and lobby their causes.

We shouldn't have the need to create 'sanctuary cities' where local politicians and elected officials can flout the law and tell the local law (police) not to do their jobs when it comes to identifying subjects and suspects during an investigation. That in and of itself should be criminal and result in the immediate arrest and prosecution of any elected officials who have publicly or privately stated that they will only follow the laws they like and will work to undermine the ones they don't like.

I got another idea just because it's complicated. Federal deportation and processing centers should be relocated next to city hall with an annex attached to the city or county police/sheriff department. If governors want to take their state down the road of transparency and social justice FEMA can come set up camps on the front lawn of the state capital to house all the undocumented illegal immigrants already here. If you build it they will come!

[Hand]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

You can think the liberal media with their fear mongering bullshit.

I would speculate this is absolutely the cause for papis choice to neglect the law as a guest in our country. The media won't take responsibility for his actions, instead, they spin up a story such as the one Penn posted.

If I may offer a second version: "father of 2 boys with criminal records and known affiliation with MS-13 detained after not renewing his work permit as he has done faithfully for 17 years".

Would anyone question him being deported, and how many would not insist that his sons go with him?

[Old Dog New Trick]

Originally Posted by Hand

I would speculate this is absolutely the cause for papis choice to neglect the law as a guest in our country. The media won't take responsibility for his actions, instead, they spin up a story such as the one Penn posted.

If I may offer a second version: "father of 2 boys with criminal records and known affiliation with MS-13 detained after not renewing his work permit as he has done faithfully for 17 years".

Would anyone question him being deported, and how many would not insist that his sons go with him?

It's not just the media. The last administration blatantly hid the facts and truths of what they were doing. Just like F&F, the IRS, HHS, HUD, DOJ, etc...it was just a giant shell game. The Dream Act was cover and appeasement for huge increases in deportations of mostly adult men from South/Central America and Mexico.

This past (last) year all the turmoil on the Southern border with kids and some women with kids was a ploy to overwhelm whatever CBP resources were left after years of decimation from the Obama administration and Harry Ried. It would have continued under Hillary unchecked. They have a plan and America and all those poor people from S/C America are pawns to their global conquest.

Americans aren't breeding children fast enough and 49% of them will grow up conservative Republican. Immigrants (just like inner city minorities) vote for free stuff because they will never have to pay for it - ever!

[Oldrotorhead]

If he liked it in the US and wanted to stay you would think in 17 years he would have found time to become a citizen. His wife is mentioned but there is no comment on her status. Wonder why?

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by Penn

Its not that simple.



1. He was one week late renewing his work permit.
2. He's had a work permit for 17 years. Always renewed.

That being true, why would he not renew, what pressures, (all inclusive) life issues, would cause someone, particularly in this political climate, with a 17 year record of renewal, risk it?

Fear,made his decision, mongering and resentfulness he felt directed towards him, and those like him. That, distrust was reflected back, by his thinking that he be arrested renewing, so in his mind not renewing was lower risk.

Not criminal activity.

I understand your point, but on the other hand the government doesn't give me any pass if I am late on anything. On the other hand if you are considered a minority or immigrant federal, state and local bureaucracies are very understanding in enforcing the rules.

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

I deal in facts not feelings. The FACT is he chose not to renew his visa. He made the decision to violate a law of the land. If it was a bureaucratic snafu I would have sympathy but it is not so tough shit. What if he committed a rape or robbery would you feel the same? What part of he knowingly violated the laws of this country is not clear?

As for MS-13 they are nothing less than narc o terrorists and should be treated as such ie an invading foreign army. As far as I am concerned CAG along with the CIA should hunt them down and kill or capture them. For the ones they capture no prison for them, put them in front of a military tribunal and execute them as the terrorists they are. seem harsh? Go see their "work" and talk to the families of their victims, that is if there are any left because they kill entire families for retaliation including women, children and babies. I have seen their work and it is not pretty.

Start thinking logically instead of emotionally. I realize you have a big heart and want to do the right thing, but don't let the media commie psyops manipulate you.

You should be institutionalized for your own well being.

[Golf1echo]

Originally Posted by Oldrotorhead

If he liked it in the US and wanted to stay you would think in 17 years he would have found time to become a citizen. His wife is mentioned but there is no comment on her status. Wonder why?

Any border patrol agent will tell you how complicated the law can be however I agree with your question, something is not meeting the sniffer test with this narration. Being in a work program is not the same as citizenship. I understand work permits are for temporary time frames allowing the holder to work in this country. Quotas are to control who and why someone can immigrate into this country and become an American citizen and the there are the lotteries that circumvent quotas and allow some illegal aliens residing in our country to stay and become legal citizens.

It looks to me like liberals and their agendas have reeked havoc with the system from the one I knew of and it needs to be fixed. That's why it is so important for them to continuously try and divide the people of this country in order to impede us actually sitting down and crafting fair legislation for the citizens of this country. Saying I have become skeptical of the media is an understatement...It's apparent the border patrol has been censured, they are the ones that know so much about the dynamics going on here and I would really like to hear from them...but we don't..................

How about how many fake work permits / green cards are floating around? What are the real estimates of illegal aliens in this country, notice how the liberal disinformation always gives an 11 million figure and yet we know there have been tremendous fluctuations through out the years? Border agents I spoke with at one time gave me a different impression, one of much higher numbers and that was decades ago. The liberals see this as an important issue to sway the voting electorate in this country. Can banking laws be used to fix some of these issues? IRS enforcement of fraudulent deductions and sanctions against employers who knowingly violate the laws?

[Razor]

I own several vehicles. I'm required to register them every year with my state DMV. I've registered vehicles I've owned and paid the associated fees and taxes for decades, in every state in which I've lived. I'd like to think I'm a decent citizen, generally do the right thing and have raised good, responsible children. Next year, if I choose not to register the car because I don't want to sit for 3+ hours at DMV waiting to submit my paperwork and pay my fees/taxes, I would be breaking the law if I continued to drive my unregistered vehicle. If a police officer sees that I don't have the current registration sticker on my plate, he may choose to pull me over to issue me a citation. If I try to evade this traffic stop, I will very likely be arrested, charged and found guilty.

This process should surprise absolutely no one with even a passing familiarity of living within the law. How is the example of the "fearful" immigrant dad any different from the laws I must follow?