Old 02-05-2017, 08:35   #586
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I have several that were very successful XOs for BGs, MGs, and LTGs not get promoted to the next rank and retire. I have even seen some CAG O6s (not that CAG, but Commander's Action Group) not get promoted.

But this one, this one, is Special...
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Old 02-06-2017, 13:06   #587
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No, she branched transferred.
Ah, so like Griest she too was "manufactured" as she didn't meet several of the branch transfer requirements codified in MILPER MSG 16-096, but the Army made it happen regardless:

1) Haver is YG 12; requirement established in MSG is YGs 14 & 15
2) Haver didn't attend IBOLC or ABOLC prior to attending MCCC as required in para. 4.B.
3) Haver didn't serve a minimum of 1 year as an Infantry PL prior to MCCC attendanced as required in para. 4.B.

I'm sure there's a square peg/round hole joke somewhere in all this.
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Old 02-07-2017, 19:52   #588
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Ah, so like Griest she too was "manufactured" as she didn't meet several of the branch transfer requirements codified in MILPER MSG 16-096, but the Army made it happen regardless:

1) Haver is YG 12; requirement established in MSG is YGs 14 & 15
2) Haver didn't attend IBOLC or ABOLC prior to attending MCCC as required in para. 4.B.
3) Haver didn't serve a minimum of 1 year as an Infantry PL prior to MCCC attendanced as required in para. 4.B.

I'm sure there's a square peg/round hole joke somewhere in all this.
That is my point. She was treated EXACTLY like any male officer, NOT!!!
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Old 02-07-2017, 20:29   #589
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That is my point. She was treated EXACTLY like any male officer, NOT!!!
Yup, and that's why I repeat this story whenever possible--to ensure everyone knows and remembers the truth behind the Army's first two female Infantry officers, and understands that the promise that 'standards will not change to accommodate gender integration' isn't worth the hot air spent in lying about it.
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Old 02-08-2017, 06:20   #590
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Ah, so like Griest she too was "manufactured" as she didn't meet several of the branch transfer requirements codified in MILPER MSG 16-096, but the Army made it happen regardless:

1) Haver is YG 12; requirement established in MSG is YGs 14 & 15
2) Haver didn't attend IBOLC or ABOLC prior to attending MCCC as required in para. 4.B.
3) Haver didn't serve a minimum of 1 year as an Infantry PL prior to MCCC attendanced as required in para. 4.B.

I'm sure there's a square peg/round hole joke somewhere in all this.
WOW! It makes me think whoever pushed that through WANTS her to fail. She has already been through a third of her career without ONCE maneuvering a combat element (Ranger school is NOT an infantry maneuver course, it is a leadership suckfest). Has never set foot in a service school to even teach you (I'm going to date myself here) 7-8 or 7-10. She will be so far behind the power curve and her "peers" (I don't fully understand all that YG stuff) that she would probably fail whatever they call an ARTEP nowadays.

But, I'd bet she gives a damn good SHARP briefing and makes a fine cup-a-Joe!
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Old 02-08-2017, 13:10   #591
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I have a son who graduates and commissions into active duty (through ROTC) this May. He has a 3.6 GPA, has rave reviews from his instructors, and always scores 300+ on the PT extended scale. He desperately wanted to branch infantry, but was given ordnance instead (for reasons known only to Army branch personnel management, but some suggested it may have been due to shifting gender-preference sands within the combat arms branches). While he was disappointed, he told me that "the Army never promised me the branch of my choice, or active duty for that matter. The Army honored its commitment to me, I am going to honor my commitment to it by being the best ordnance officer I can possibly be." Its odd when a son teaches the father some things.
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Old 02-08-2017, 16:19   #592
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I have a son who graduates and commissions into active duty (through ROTC) this May. He has a 3.6 GPA, has rave reviews from his instructors, and always scores 300+ on the PT extended scale. He desperately wanted to branch infantry, but was given ordnance instead (for reasons known only to Army branch personnel management, but some suggested it may have been due to shifting gender-preference sands within the combat arms branches). While he was disappointed, he told me that "the Army never promised me the branch of my choice, or active duty for that matter. The Army honored its commitment to me, I am going to honor my commitment to it by being the best ordnance officer I can possibly be." Its odd when a son teaches the father some things.
That's his problem - if it had been a 2.6 GPA, he'd be a shoo-in for Infantry.
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Old 02-08-2017, 16:40   #593
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I have a son who graduates and commissions into active duty (through ROTC) this May. He has a 3.6 GPA, has rave reviews from his instructors, and always scores 300+ on the PT extended scale. He desperately wanted to branch infantry, but was given ordnance instead (for reasons known only to Army branch personnel management, but some suggested it may have been due to shifting gender-preference sands within the combat arms branches). While he was disappointed, he told me that "the Army never promised me the branch of my choice, or active duty for that matter. The Army honored its commitment to me, I am going to honor my commitment to it by being the best ordnance officer I can possibly be." Its odd when a son teaches the father some things.
What was his major? Summer Camp score? Infantry believe it or not, is VERY competitive.

There is usually a good reason why someone gets hit out of the blue, it just may take some digging to reveal it.

Good for him for taking the right attitude. I work on the 18A Committee and besides seeing a lot of 11's come through, every class tends to have the one or two guys that got hammered with Chemical Corps, Ordinance, etc. So, in a few years he can always hit selection, but not if he doesn't do well as a LT.
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Old 02-08-2017, 17:58   #594
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I have a son who graduates and commissions into active duty (through ROTC) this May. He has a 3.6 GPA, has rave reviews from his instructors, and always scores 300+ on the PT extended scale. He desperately wanted to branch infantry, but was given ordnance instead (for reasons known only to Army branch personnel management, but some suggested it may have been due to shifting gender-preference sands within the combat arms branches). While he was disappointed, he told me that "the Army never promised me the branch of my choice, or active duty for that matter. The Army honored its commitment to me, I am going to honor my commitment to it by being the best ordnance officer I can possibly be." Its odd when a son teaches the father some things.
He can always go SPecial Forces no matter what his branch!
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Old 02-08-2017, 19:24   #595
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There is a pretty rigorous screening of officers in a very narrow window to get the opportunity to attend SFAS.

It is almost impossible for an officer to return if he doesn't make it the first time. The time line is too short.

It was possible, at one time, for a General Officer to personally select an officer to attend SFAS without being previously selected by the officer board. Still, that just got them a ticket to attend, not to be selected.

For the females, they will eventually get one to stay around long enough to complain that she was discriminated against and the politicians in uniform will make the exception. All standards can be lowered (or waived) over time. Or she will sue, like the only woman every to attend the SFQC did.

TR
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Old 02-09-2017, 06:45   #596
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That's his problem - if it had been a 2.6 GPA, he'd be a shoo-in for Infantry.
I would be angry and insulted...if my GPA would have been that high.
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Old 02-09-2017, 06:56   #597
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SFOC not SFQC

[ Or she will sue, like the only woman every to attend the SFQC did.]

Actually she attended the SF Officers Course, the SFQC was for enlisted only back then but there's sure to be some lawsuits.
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Old 02-09-2017, 11:22   #598
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What was his major? Summer Camp score? Infantry believe it or not, is VERY competitive.

There is usually a good reason why someone gets hit out of the blue, it just may take some digging to reveal it.

Good for him for taking the right attitude. I work on the 18A Committee and besides seeing a lot of 11's come through, every class tends to have the one or two guys that got hammered with Chemical Corps, Ordinance, etc. So, in a few years he can always hit selection, but not if he doesn't do well as a LT.
You are absolutely correct, sir. It was very competitive. I think its been that way for quite some time now. He is hopeful that he will be assigned to the 82nd in a sustainment/ordnance unit, and hopefully get to go to Ranger school, so that if he makes selection, he will have some experience in an airborne unit. Any advice you could provide would not only be welcomed, but greatly appreciated.
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Old 02-10-2017, 05:45   #599
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While he was disappointed, he told me that "the Army never promised me the branch of my choice, or active duty for that matter. The Army honored its commitment to me, I am going to honor my commitment to it by being the best ordnance officer I can possibly be." .
That's a good attitude for a youngster to have- although I'd say it's also naive to have it too long once he gets in. The Army is a bureaucracy and doesn't make decisions like a rational person would. The bureaucracy doesn't manage its personnel to best win wars - it manages personnel with a Taylorist industrial factory model wherein there are inputs and outputs and everyone is a number. The only exceptions it makes are when general officers request a bending of the rules - and even that sometimes doesn't break the bureaucracy 's will. Oh- or if there's political pressure to do something...
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Old 03-31-2017, 17:01   #600
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Two more women being 'tabbed' today.

Two female Infantry officers set to graduate from Ranger School



By Chuck Williams

Two female Infantry officers have completed U.S. Army Ranger School and are scheduled to be awarded the coveted tabs during Friday’s graduation ceremony at Victory Pond, a Fort Benning spokesman confirmed.

The Army did not release the names of the women, who will be among 119 soldiers to receive their tabs this week. The Army did confirm that they were both graduates of the Infantry Basic Officer Leaders Course.

“The Maneuver Center of Excellence focuses on training leaders every day through an array of professional military education and first-class functional training that results in increased readiness in the operation of the Army,” said Ben Garrett, Fort Benning spokesman. “We provide our soldiers with the necessary tools, doctrine and skill set so they are successful once they arrive at their units. This success is built on the quality of our instructions, professionalism of our instructors and the maintaining of standards in everything we do. The Ranger Course is an example of that commitment to excellence.”

They are the first women to complete the Army’s most demanding combat training school in almost 17 months.


Anyone with current contacts within the Ranger School have more info? How many women started RAP week vs made it through and started the course? How long it actually took for these two to make it through?
This was really kept close-hold.
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