Old 09-15-2010, 18:46   #1
Interesting
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Question Precision Rifle

Hi guys,

Ok, first; I have searched and been educated on precision rifles, not extensively of course. I in no way have any experience with such a rifle since my professional time was spent with a handgun and a shotgun. Then later a patrol rifle.

This said platform I want to be dual purpose unless I am educated different. First and foremost a hunting rifle which can be backed up as being used for other survival purposes. Mainly taking four legged antlered animals.
I have a Remington Model 721 .270 cal but am looking to get something else that I can get spare parts for. Some parts of the 721 can no longer be had, do hobby gunsmithing on the side now, that is how I know that. This rifle must be rugged, easy to maintain and somewhat accurate. I don't think I need to be sub 1/2 moa for a hunting/survival rifle, correct me if I am wrong please. Bolt or semi? Cal for mid to long range with good kinetic energy transfer?

Anyways, wanted to get some opinions from guys who have used these types of rifles for real and not get the hype, I know that is why I am here and that is why I came to this site, tired of the airsofters and arm chair commando opinions.

Thanks in advance for the replies.

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Old 09-16-2010, 00:58   #2
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You didn't mention all the types of precision shooting you are doing, you simply mentioned hunting and survival.

If you just need a fairly accurate rifle for hunting, there's many options in the highly accurate range. Just about any bolt gun with a synthetic stock could be considered "rugged, easy to maintain, and somewhat accurate."

You need to define what you consider mid to long range and what targets you are shooting at that range. Kinetic energy TRANSFER is largely bullet construction dependent, kinetic energy LEVELS are largely cartridge, bullet weight and shape, barrel length, etc, dependent.

You need to also mention your price range and your price range for optics.

Then tell us if you plan to reload.

Next, are you shooting matches or doing group shooting or what. Plenty of thin barrelled hunting rifles will put rounds into 1" + or -
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Last edited by Justinmd; 09-16-2010 at 01:03.
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Old 09-16-2010, 04:45   #3
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A Rem 700 action is about as common of an action as can be obtained. Spare parts are everywhere. If it is trued then accuracy will be extreme.

The 308 cartridge is about the most common cartridge available and can be obtained almost anywhere. It is available in many configurations such as Federal Gold Medal Match. If you learn to reload then ammo availability becomes less of a problem

The problem with a mid to long range survival rifle is going to be the sighting system. Telescopic sights are going to be a problem over the long term and the really durable systems are really expensive. Competition iron sights are not really geared for hunting and I do not know anyone who makes a really good and durable long range hunting iron sight. Parts and repair are going to be major problems to solve.

Something to consider is what does survival mean to you. There is the Mad Max wandering through post apocalyptic mutants and then there is Mormon stockpile food and water in your basement waiting for the Moroni to blow his horn styles of survival.
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:54   #4
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Another very serious consideration for you will be caliber. Noting where you live, there are some pretty big critters roaming around.

I built a .308 mountain gun a couple years ago, took it elk hunting, and put three good shots into an elk before he dropped for good. I am quite sure, if that would have been a bear, I would now be bear poop.

The .308 is a good caliber for a "survival gun" here in Missouri. In the Rockies, the animals are bigger, as are the ranges. A .308 would be my absolute-minimum caliber.

You also have to carry the gun, and the hills in Utah are big. I like light guns, and shoot a #3 taper Lilja barrel. However, you are not going to get many shots through this barrel before heat becomes a serious accuracy factor. Also, having a short-action round decreases weight substantially versus a long-action.

In your area, I would seriously consider either a .300 winchester magnum, or a .300 winchester short mag. Very good ballistics and knockdown. Good long range rounds. You can load light for whitetail, and load heavy for bigger stuff. (If you don't reload, find a friend who does.)

A friend recently built a .300 win short mag, going with the short mag to save weight. He built it as follows: Rem 700 action(milled), #3 Lilja barrel, MacMillan stock, aluminum pillar bedding, Leupold glass, talley rings/mounts. The gun is a tack-driver, and has already proven itself well on elk and whitetail.
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:11   #5
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For your 721 parts, do you know about Numrichs? They are probably the largest supplier of used firearm parts.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/...spx?catid=4335
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:31   #6
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Interesting,

Concur with my brother OPs. First need a bit more diffinition on use. Besides the 700, don't over look the Savage 110 action (easy to change bbls at home) and the Mauser 98. For a chambering besides the .308, .300 WM and WSM dont' forget the 30-06. All these .30 cals will work and you'll be able to find ammo. There are a few models of the 700 and 110 that come with irons sights (not the best but backups). My hunting rifle is a Harrison and Richardson 340 (Yugoslavian 98) in .308 with a Leupold VXII 2x7. My battle rifle is a 18" FAL with ARMS mount, mounting a Leupold 3x which has proven to drop whitetails at 300m.

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Old 09-22-2010, 10:48   #7
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re: precision rifle

I own a Steyr Scout (Jeff Cooper Edition) in .308 caliber and would highly recommend purchasing one. I would consider it precise yet practical. It is capable of shooting into 2 minutes of angle or less (4") at 200 yards/meters (3 shot groups). .308 is a widely available cartridge. Go to this website to find out more http://www.steyrscout.org/project.htm
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Old 09-22-2010, 14:03   #8
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I own a Steyr Scout (Jeff Cooper Edition) in .308 caliber and would highly recommend purchasing one. I would consider it precise yet practical. It is capable of shooting into 2 minutes of angle or less (4") at 200 yards/meters (3 shot groups). .308 is a widely available cartridge. Go to this website to find out more http://www.steyrscout.org/project.htm
Not results I would be happy with if I wanted a "precision" rifle, especially after spending that much. The Scout has it's 'cool factor' but not recommended for his intended purpose. Not to mention, the forward mounted scope (which is basically a handgun scope) won't provide the magnification he needs to make 1000yd+ hits accurately, or at least pleasing to him. He's going down the right path.

Cool gun though. I have the knock-off Savage 10 Scout with the accu-stock and trigger and a Nikon 2.5-8x28
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Old 09-23-2010, 09:09   #9
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Another opinion

A friend of mine once said;

"If your rifle is not a 308 and you can't hit what you are aiming at with de-linked machinegun ammunition you are a pretender".

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Old 09-23-2010, 09:20   #10
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A friend of mine once said;

"If your rifle is not a 308 and you can't hit what you are aiming at with de-linked machinegun ammunition you are a pretender".

MVP
Thanks for the morning laugh. I have a Ruger mk 77 in .308, When I changed the scoped and sighting it in with basic hand loads, it clover leafed three times. I has sort of bragging to a friend about it when we when shooting. That time I brought some EU Nato surplus to shoot, I think the best I could do at 50 yards was a six inch group. Might have been Spanish or Portuguese ammo. Murphy did it to me again.
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Old 09-23-2010, 10:23   #11
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Originally Posted by HOLLiS View Post
Thanks for the morning laugh. I have a Ruger mk 77 in .308, When I changed the scoped and sighting it in with basic hand loads, it clover leafed three times. I has sort of bragging to a friend about it when we when shooting. That time I brought some EU Nato surplus to shoot, I think the best I could do at 50 yards was a six inch group. Might have been Spanish or Portuguese ammo. Murphy did it to me again.
Is this because .308 rifles are more inconsistent depending on round quality? I'm considering getting a 700 in .308.
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Old 09-23-2010, 11:25   #12
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Is this because .308 rifles are more inconsistent depending on round quality? I'm considering getting a 700 in .308.
I don't think caliber has anything to do with it, just very poor quality control on the ammo.
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Old 09-23-2010, 12:14   #13
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Is this because .308 rifles are more inconsistent depending on round quality? I'm considering getting a 700 in .308.
Stay away from surplus ammo on a bolt action set-up, it's pointless unless you own a Nagant or similar. Same goes for steel cased or any Russian/Serbian crap (Monarch especially) that's not to SAAMI spec. It's tempting because it's so cheap, but working as a range officer I've seen far too many malfunctions and even catistrophic failure due to these loads.
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Old 09-23-2010, 12:26   #14
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Ray, do you have some special qualifications you have not mentioned in your Intro that qualifies you to be dispensing advice among QPs with more than a few hundred years of collective shooting experience?

Don't mind a new perspective, but I would like to know where it is coming from.

Particularly if it is not based on personal experience.

TR
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Old 09-23-2010, 16:50   #15
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Is this because .308 rifles are more inconsistent depending on round quality? I'm considering getting a 700 in .308.
jw:

Any rifle of any caliber will be more inconsistent if the quality of the ammunition and particularly the bullet and or the design of the bullet is poor.

One thing I have found with the .308 is that it is very forgiving in terms of loads. You won't get magical half minute with them for the most part but you will get very consistent 3/4 or one minute with about any decent bullet and load.

That doesn't mean you should expect performance from cheap imported ammo. Only that about any load you use with a decent bullet will give you good consistent performance.

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