SF Fieldcraft

[metaphor]

Originally Posted by perdurabo

This is a great writeup. The only thing I'd added (for those without field advice) is practice this BEFORE you need it.

Figuring out the physics and the kinds of stuff you need take some time. Memorizing how to do this isn't enough. You don't want to figure out ideal stick & drill sizes after you are cold, wet, exhausted, and hungry.

I went on a long hike last weekend and managed to get a cherry under a tree stand in torrential rain and winds for the first time. I figure if I'm good to go there...

Go on a hike, find a safe/private area, and practice.

Well put. Best feeling in the world when you get it right. Cheers.

[Back211]

If your trying to make a hot fire pine cones and needles burn hot but sometimes burn too smokey. Pine needles burn out fast when their dry, they make a great addition to the fire due to their oil content.

I heard this "saying" to help in extreme circumstances, however I feel this is only to help prioritize rather than a rule in extreme situations:

3 minutes without air
3 hours without shelter
3 days without water
3 weeks without food

Quick question(s) about the snow cave, as I have heard digging into the snow for shelter is a great survival skill in extreme weather.

Can you please elaborate on the cave itself? Does it need to be a certain depth below the snow? One opening or two? Does one cover the main opening with snow or brush just enough so airflow is not hampered? How big should the cave be, or how far should one tunnel into the snow away from the main opening?

Also does it matter if you sleep with your head towards or away from the main opening? Thanks in advance.

Originally Posted by Sarski

Quick question(s) about the snow cave, as I have heard digging into the snow for shelter is a great survival skill in extreme weather.

Can you please elaborate on the cave itself? Does it need to be a certain depth below the snow? One opening or two? Does one cover the main opening with snow or brush just enough so airflow is not hampered? How big should the cave be, or how far should one tunnel into the snow away from the main opening?

Also does it matter if you sleep with your head towards or away from the main opening? Thanks in advance.

The snow cave can be built on flat ground.

Two men can build a snow cave in under 3 hours without too much effort. While snow is piled high, 4-5ft., another walks on the pile compressing it tight with snow shoes or skis. I prefer the shovel to the endless stompting, so take turns, both tasks are tough.

The inside dimensions should accomodate the width of two persons with enough roon in between for cooking (18"), equipment, etc., the length to accomodate sleeping bags, rucksacks. Leave skiis and snow shoe outside.

One person should do the digging, the other to watch for thinnning walls. Make a air vent with a ski pole from the inside. The digging person will wear jacket, pants, plan on getting wet. Use pots, pans, small shovel to shape the inside cave.

I've made many snow caves, most are good for 2 nights, 3 if your lucky, snow does melt with bodies inside, temps will rise quickly above 32degrees, higher still if you burn alot of fuel, melting ice, cooking, etc. I've awakened many mornings with the cave settling more then a foot from original ceiling heigth.

A snow drift will last longer, but really tough to dig and you never know the ground level, depth, size, etc. I had success along tree lines, fences and the old barn. Practice making caves long before you ever think you might need to ever make one. Caves can be built in the city park, golf cources, they are fun to do, kids like them and you can always go home for popcorn, movies and hot chocolate.

Good luck.

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by Sarski

Quick question(s) about the snow cave, as I have heard digging into the snow for shelter is a great survival skill in extreme weather.

Can you please elaborate on the cave itself? Does it need to be a certain depth below the snow? One opening or two? Does one cover the main opening with snow or brush just enough so airflow is not hampered? How big should the cave be, or how far should one tunnel into the snow away from the main opening?

Also does it matter if you sleep with your head towards or away from the main opening? Thanks in advance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9jlLhfpCO0

[lksteve]

Originally Posted by Sarski

Quick question(s) about the snow cave, as I have heard digging into the snow for shelter is a great survival skill in extreme weather.

WD hit the main points about snow caves...let me add a couple, although they should be self-evident...you want to drain melt water away from the sleeping area. That is usually done by creating a channel along the inside perimeter of the cave. The melt water usually winds up in the cold sink near the entrance to the cave...some folks will try to lengthen the period of residence in the cave by adding snow to the roof...not a good idea...and finally, snow in central Alaska and other places where the temps drop well below zero fahrenheit is seldom suitable for caves. The snow itself is too dry and not cohesive...when it packs, it is very brittle, more the consistency of styrofoam...Bad Toelz and Fort Devens were great places for snow caves...Fort Wainwright, Alaska was not...I've had trouble finding good snow for a cave or igloo in the central Rockies as well...tree pits and snow trenches are the way to go in these areas...

[MVP]

If there are no drifts available as WD said snow can be piled up and packed. Best procedure is to take all your gear and put it in a pile where you want the cave. Cover it with a poncho or similiar covering and then pile/pack the snow on top. Once the snow is packed high enough dig down to your gear and pull it out to finish the inside of the cave. Doing it this way will save you a lot of time lying in the snow getting wet while you dig out snow you just shoveled and packed to make the cave.

The option is to do it the ranger way and get completely soaked and miserable.

MVP

[Golf1echo]

Hard shell jacket and pants can come in handy, as MVP said from being intimate with the snow your going to get wet, also regulate your work so as to control overheating. One method to reduce time and energy is to dig into a drift or hill side with a larger opening than you might typically use for a snow cave and when your interior space is finished go back and use snow blocks to build a wall at the opening leaving a small entrance that can be closed off.
Iksteve touched on the point that even in the middle of Winter in places like the Colorado Rockies it is not always workable to find good conditions to build a snow cave. Many a night at the old Camp Hale area a comfy snow trench worked fine and saved energy. Where I live now we get ice and poor snow, good insulation and a hard shell does the job.
Here is a G1 Multi Shell and G1 Liners.

Edit: One of the most effective elements that I have found in cold weather shelters is to have a dome shape above you that vents at the side, this holds the heat in your shelter while allowing fresh air to circulate as needed thus helping to control CO2 and condensation. If the venting is done at the top your heat loss is greater. Basically you are harnessing natural convective flows. The opposite would be true for a warm weather shelter, you want the heat to rise up and out. Second photo is an example of a simple,quick, light and efficient cold weather configuration.

The very best snow cave I ever saw was a semi-permanent structure made of whale ribs and animal skins, it slept aprox. 30 people. I say semi-permanent because it was moved every 5 years between hunting areas, 150 miles apart.

This thing had three levels!!! The children slept in the center near the fire with a few dogs and all young pups. Average temp in winter was aprox. 50 degress inside, -50 outside. Walls in winter were 2 ft thick, (ice-snow). Summer time, it was just hides.

The place gave you a feeling of stepping back in time 25,000 years.

[ZonieDiver]

The place gave you a feeling of stepping back in time 25,000 years.

Damn, WD! I knew you were old, just not THAT old!

[lksteve]

Originally Posted by ZonieDiver

Damn, WD! I knew you were old, just not THAT old!

You saying he still has his mastadon tags from the Pleistocene?

[Golf1echo]

Wet Dog, I find myself very curious about the snow shelter mentioned can you tell more about it? Shape, construction, orientation spacial division,etc...?

Originally Posted by Golf1echo

Wet Dog, I find myself very curious about the snow shelter mentioned can you tell more about it? Shape, construction, orientation spacial division,etc...?

The small shelter used for 1-2 nights, or the large Eskimo shelter made from whale bones and hides?

The attached photo is a good example of a larger extended Eskimo village, even by 1920 standards. You see the coast line, semi-modern buildings and tents, limited power lines, generator supported, commo wire and radio.

Now jump to 1980-1990, 2000 - In an Eskimo village, things change little. Now imagine the enire area (photo shown), under 15 ft of show/ice. Buildings have little use, very cold, often abandoned. Families quickly hunker down, old people tell stories, teach language, make tools. The young bucks, (ages 15-25) do all the heavy lifting, hunting. Women make clothing, kids play with dogs.

Edited to read also: The poles used in this photo most likely came from the availability of ships in repair, harbor for supplies, etc. Villages up and down coastal regions used whatever means at their disposal, (i.e., whale bones, seal hides, etc.).

This village, I'm betting is still there, but modernized, xbox 360, movie channel, news, PS.com.

[Golf1echo]

I was referring to the larger whale bone shelter, it conjured up the Norse Long House.

That is a wonderful image!....it looks like bears, nets and frost heave were considerations. What you describe is similar to the Icelandic experience. For man to survive in such extremes for the long duration of Winter and darkness is impressive. Great,Thank you.

Originally Posted by Golf1echo

...For man to survive in such extremes for the long duration of Winter and darkness is impressive...

That's nothing, I've been divorced twice.