11-23-2013, 22:15
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#31
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Guest
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[QUOTE=The Reaper;531145]Honestly, I can't see releasing any prisoner who had any history of being a violent felon. Sorry, but that is just the way I would call it.
Misdemeanors (who probably shouldn't be in a prison, just jailed) and non-violent felons would probably be okay to release if the jails and prisons couldn't be secured and resourced.
You are absolutely correct Sir. The problem was what "we" were going to do with the rest that were never going to commit another crime again and the smell that would of come from the facility.....later on.
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11-24-2013, 13:19
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#32
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,403
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A polity cannot exist without law. In a truly SHTF scenario you must form a new set of laws and apply them consistently. Prison staff taking it upon themselves to execute violent offenders are murderers. Prison staff who consult with the local authorities, advise them of the issues, and assist them in forming new laws that address the realities of the new environment are patriots and remain honorable members of the sheepdog community.
That prison is going to be a critical point for your defense and is a huge local advantage to your tribe. You don't want it stinky and a monument to shame.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: lawyering is going to be as critical a skill-set as soldiering and farming.
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mugwump
“Klaatu barada nikto”
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11-24-2013, 13:49
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#33
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 4,792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mugwump
A polity cannot exist without law. In a truly SHTF scenario you must form a new set of laws and apply them consistently. Prison staff taking it upon themselves to execute violent offenders are murderers. Prison staff who consult with the local authorities, advise them of the issues, and assist them in forming new laws that address the realities of the new environment are patriots and remain honorable members of the sheepdog community.
That prison is going to be a critical point for your defense and is a huge local advantage to your tribe. You don't want it stinky and a monument to shame.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: lawyering is going to be as critical a skill-set as soldiering and farming.
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Agree.
The trades, farmers, security, medical and legal/constitutional skills will help the transition back from chaos and survival to a semblance of civilization.
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The function of wisdom is to discriminate between good and evil.
Marcus Tullius Cicero
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tonyz is offline
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11-24-2013, 16:21
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#34
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,780
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyz
Agree.
The trades, farmers, security, medical and legal/constitutional skills will help the transition back from chaos and survival to a semblance of civilization.
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You had me tracking right up to the lawyers part.
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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11-24-2013, 16:23
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#35
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 4,000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
You had me tracking right up to the lawyers part.
TR
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You need to have some to keep the guillotine lubricated...
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The two most powerful warriors are patience and time - Leo Tolstoy
It's Never Crowded Along the Extra Mile - Wayne Dyer
WOKE = Willfully Overlooking Known Evil
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MR2 is offline
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11-24-2013, 16:24
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#36
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 4,792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
You had me tracking right up to the lawyers part.
TR
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Yeah - I feel you.
But, good ones can be of some use...sometimes. 
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The function of wisdom is to discriminate between good and evil.
Marcus Tullius Cicero
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tonyz is offline
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11-24-2013, 16:30
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#37
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,780
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Morally, is it better to leave violent prisoners in their cells to die, or to release them and have someone else have to terminate their existence, likely only after they have perpetrated many more crimes and victimized many more people? Do you want to be the one who lets a hundred Mansons go free?
The correctional officers and staff have their own families to take care of, I wouldn't expect many of them to report to work for long if the grid were to go down or other serious disaster of potential long duration strikes. This decision will likely be made quickly and could have far reaching implications.
For that matter, how about pets? If you are out of food, is it better to release them to starve to death (if they lost their feral nature), or to prey upon others if they didn't, or to put them down yourselves? If you have not seen what wild dogs can do, you may want to watch a few YouTube videos of wolves, hyenas, and wild dogs in action before making that call.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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11-24-2013, 17:13
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#38
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Guest
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We use Deputies in our Jail and not correction officers. We have the ability to charge Inmates with crimes committed in the facility and anybody else outside of the facility. We use to, on a regular basis that is, write out confidentials on inmates who made the mistake of either speaking out about their crimes whether it was between us and them, their family (visitation hours), or them talking and bragging to other inmates about what they did.
We also use to cut confidentials on inmates who were nothing but problems. Assaults on staff, fighting amongst the other inmates, and the list goes on. Once convicted, they were usually sent out to the next day depending upon the crime. Naturally, murders, rapists, serial or spree criminals, and pedophiles were given first priority. These confidentials were always sent with the transport Deputies to accompany the said inmate(s) to their first prison which from there they were categorized and placed throughout the state. Once these confidentials reached the "receiving" prison and the Correction officers read them and the problems we had with them, rumors were that the inmate(s) in question were taken aside and, well.....the behavior pattern was ended right then and there for lack of a better phrase.
Repeat violent offenders, especially murderes and any type of sexual crimes, in a real world situ, would possibly get a choice between a $0.20 bullet or starving to death. Others, would be judged accordingly, I would assume.
Also, if this is true, he would really have to worry.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...other-victims/
By the way, we used the "Direct Supervision" method of controlling the inmates.
Last edited by MAB32; 11-24-2013 at 17:29.
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11-24-2013, 18:21
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#39
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,403
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Morally it would be better to make them dig their own graves and then put plastic bags over their heads. I'm not saying to feed them or keep them alive. I'm saying decide their fate under rule of law. Decide as a group what constitutes a capital offense under the new paradigm, pass the laws, have your hearings and perform said executions as indicated.
Maintaining rule of law with representative input requires a polity with a high level of organization. It may be that your/my region will have to drop down a level or two until stability and common sense match the new reality (Chief? Warlord?), but I'd want to keep my region's structure as mature as possible.
Rule of law, financial investment, and property rights are central to my kind of freedom. That means lawyers and judges, whatever you want to call them.
What do you do with people who sleep on guard duty? Violate OPSEC on market day? Chronically loaf? Steal food? It's going to get messy, and fast.
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mugwump
“Klaatu barada nikto”
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11-24-2013, 19:07
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#40
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Occupied Pineland
Posts: 4,701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mugwump
---- Maintaining rule of law with representative input requires a polity with a high level of organization. It may be that your/my region will have to drop down a level or two until stability and common sense match the new reality (Chief? Warlord?), but I'd want to keep my region's structure as mature as possible. ----------
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FINALLY!!!! A situation where MISO and CA (properly subordinated to the Tactical Commander) might actually be something besides an unnecessary nuisance, or an interfering PITA, or simply a waste of resources keeping them alive and out from under foot.
No - that wasn't in pink.
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A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.
~ Marcus Tullius Cicero (42B.C)
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Peregrino is offline
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11-24-2013, 23:10
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#41
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Southern Arizona
Posts: 590
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I have found this very helpful especially since not being in a remote area permanently anymore - Never even thought about prisoners.
Curious about TR's comment about "PSYOP aspect of this effort." Any ideas/plans for this aspect ?
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Δεν είμαι άξιος του σταυρού του Ιησού οπή, Andreas
Denial and inactivity prepare people well for roles of victim and corpse
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badshot is offline
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11-25-2013, 05:44
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#42
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 4,000
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Urban Villages and the Making of Communities
English | 272 pages | ISBN-10: 0415262739
http://www.amazon.com/Urban-Villages...of+Communities
__________________
The two most powerful warriors are patience and time - Leo Tolstoy
It's Never Crowded Along the Extra Mile - Wayne Dyer
WOKE = Willfully Overlooking Known Evil
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11-25-2013, 07:53
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#43
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Southern Arizona
Posts: 590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR2
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Light goes on...I'm living in one!
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Δεν είμαι άξιος του σταυρού του Ιησού οπή, Andreas
Denial and inactivity prepare people well for roles of victim and corpse
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badshot is offline
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11-25-2013, 09:42
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#44
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Idaho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flagg
Entire Quote
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I remember traveling around NZ back in '05 and the radio programs would air emergency preparedness reminders almost every hour for homeowners and families to keep their disaster kits ready and up to date in case of the wide range of natural disasters that NZ is subject to.
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"It is a brave act of valor to condemn death, but where life is more terrible than death, it is then the truest valor to dare to live." -Sir Thomas Browne (1605-1682)
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TOMAHAWK9521 is offline
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11-25-2013, 10:33
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#45
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrino
FINALLY!!!! A situation where MISO and CA (properly subordinated to the Tactical Commander) might actually be something besides an unnecessary nuisance, or an interfering PITA, or simply a waste of resources keeping them alive and out from under foot.
No - that wasn't in pink.
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Well...not in our plans.  Departments of Food, War, School, Law, Medicine, and Energy still report to the civil authorities. So still under foot.
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mugwump
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