10-26-2006, 21:39
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#1
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Texas, I can see OK from here!
Posts: 2,077
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Woman Is Termed Qualified For Green Beret Unit
Before you freak on me this is from 1981!!!!
But has anyone worked with or know Capt. Kathleen Wilder? I would be interested to here a stroy or two.
Look under the training paragraph
Quote:
Training
A completely new recruit to the United States Army, who has signed on for the Special Forces, starts his (all United States Special Forces are closed to females, though one woman completed and graduated from the Special Forces Officer Course in 1980, thus becoming the only Special Forces-qualified female[1]) training in Fort Benning, Georgia.
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References
^ "Woman is Termed Qualified For Green Beret Unit", AP/NYT, February 22, 1981, pp. Section 1, Page 20.
of course I don't have a subscription! but you gotta love how PC Wikipedia is! All the acheivement of SF and the 1st paragharph under training talks about how a women has done it. They have more information on Popular culture and video games than Training.
edited cause I cna't type or spell very guud
Last edited by SF18C; 10-26-2006 at 21:43.
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SF18C is offline
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10-26-2006, 21:45
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#2
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Quiet Professional
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Yes.
She made full Colonel in MI. She was assigned to SWCS at the time and used her position to justify her application for the SFQC.
They changed the reg after she got in to keep it from happening again.
IIRC, after she was relieved for failure to meet standards, she screamed sexual discrimination and they pretty much just handed her a diploma.
HTH.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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10-27-2006, 05:03
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#3
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Quiet Professional
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Others know the full story
Others know the full story but; Yeah, she wiggled in on a technicality and went through the officer's course.
Short story was she didn't pull her weight in the field portion of the old Phase III. After graduation she raised a stink and pointed out that a few fellow officers also didn't pull their weight, due to minor injuries jumping into Phase III. It was either give her the beret or call the other officers back and make them all repeat Phase III. The powers-that-be picked the first course and we see what she did with the gift.
IIRC - There were some interesting stories floating around about her for next few years. Of course none were first hand but from a friend to a friend and I got it from here.
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Pete is offline
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10-27-2006, 09:11
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#4
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by SF18C
Before you freak on me this is from 1981!!!!
But has anyone worked with or know Capt. Kathleen Wilder? I would be interested to here a stroy or two.
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I went through in 83. The stories I heard was it was a "joke" that went wrong.
I also heard she didn't make any of the ruck marches with the proper weight. It was more of a " guided tour" of the Q Course for her. We can thank her for getting one thing done, she closed the book on any other females attending the Q-Course.
She must have had some dirt on someone.........
TS
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"The Spartans do not ask how many are the enemy, but where they are."
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Team Sergeant is offline
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10-27-2006, 10:21
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#5
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I am amazed at the things I learn on this site! I always thought that SF was the one place that would stay female free.......not that there is anything wrong with females........
Jim
__________________
Breaking a law or violation of a regulation is not a mistake. It is willful misconduct.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." [Samuel Adams]
Jim
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incommin is offline
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10-27-2006, 10:28
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#6
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Moderator
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Usually everything is from a "friend of a friend". Of course, I am one of those friends.  One of my friends went through the course with her. He had a few stories. Too bad I don't dish, especially hearsay. 
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Airbornelawyer is offline
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10-27-2006, 10:31
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#7
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Quiet Professional
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Give, amigo.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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10-27-2006, 10:31
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#8
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Airbornelawyer
Too bad I don't dish, especially hearsay. |
If it comes from one SF'er to another I don't consider it hearsay.
Just an FYI to why I posted what I did.
Everything every Special Forces soldier told me about her "passing" the Q Course was a joke to say the least.
Team Sergeant
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"The Spartans do not ask how many are the enemy, but where they are."
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Team Sergeant is offline
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10-27-2006, 10:35
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#9
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There were rumors about her when I went through the course in 83. Some were, not very flattering re: her character and use of gender for advancement. (ok, does that get me a PC prize of some sort - NDD I think we went through the course at the same time, maybe the same class)
__________________
In the business of war, there is no invariable stategic advantage (shih) which can be relied upon at all times.
Sun-Tzu, "The Art of Warfare"
Hearing, I forget. Seeing, I remember. Writing (doing), I understand. Chinese Proverb
Too many people are looking for a magic bullet. As always, shot placement is the key. ~TR
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x SF med is offline
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10-27-2006, 10:45
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#10
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The one problem is I don't want to misremember a 10-year old conversation. As I recall - and this is subject to qualification since I learned this morning in a series of e-mails this morning with a partner that I couldn't remember a document my firm had created a few months ago when I was the one who had created it  - she was sleeping with one of the cadre, and I believe was found out on a ruck march or land nav exercise. The embarassment to the schoolhouse was considered worse than the embarassment to her and the particular cadre member, which may have led to her passing a certain exercise she didn't actually complete in a vertical manner.
Again, this is hearsay from a guy whose memory is failing. 
Her not carrying the same weight is also something I recall as well, although I can't remember if that was less in the technical sense or the "real" sense. What I mean is, in a team exercise, if the book says everyone carries X equipment and a 35lb or 50lb ruck or whatever, she might have had that, but when it came to allocating all the extra team equipment, somehow, she never ended up with anything. So when it came to weighing rucks, there was technical compliance with the standards, but everyone else was forced to carry her weight. This I'm not as sure about, though; I may be conflating it with what happened in some of my schools like OCS, where most female OCs definitely didn't carry their weight.
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Airbornelawyer is offline
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10-27-2006, 12:18
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#11
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The entire story should be an object lesson to everybody on the importance of maintaining impeccable personal standards/the moral high ground whenever exposed to potentially compromising situations. Any demonstrated weakness becomes a "chink in the armor" that will suffice to drive a wedge through. We all know a wedge (and a sledgehammer to drive it) is sufficient to fracture diamonds, let alone lesser materials. "Nuff said" - Peregrino
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Peregrino is offline
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10-27-2006, 12:32
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#12
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Quiet Professional
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The problem is that most are not thinking about maintaining the moral high ground when they are exposed to potentially compromising situations. Their mind is on the situation backed up by a belief they will not get caught. NO one commits a crime or indiscretion believing they will be caught.......they believe they will get away with it and commit the act.
Jim
__________________
Breaking a law or violation of a regulation is not a mistake. It is willful misconduct.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." [Samuel Adams]
Jim
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incommin is offline
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10-27-2006, 13:27
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#13
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Quiet Professional
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SFUWO was next
Yeah, I remember the flurry of chatter after the situation was ended.
I want to say that some female soldier in 7th (?) Group used her as the insperation and role model for a shot at SFUWO School, Combat Diver for the younger ones. She was working out on the north side of Gruber on the old Smoke Bomb Hill Parade Ground.
The SCUBA Teams were keeping a close eye on that one, but the regs were changed and things settled back down to the usual level of rumors and scuttlebutt.
Rumors and scuttlebut, F6 most of the time but every once-in-a-while its spot on.
Edited to add: You have to remember the time frame. Womens Lib, hear me roar, burn the bras was still high fashion. The Army had just dug it's way out of the 70s. Sure not today's Army.
Last edited by Pete; 10-27-2006 at 13:30.
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10-27-2006, 19:47
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#14
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Quiet Professional
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That woman did not legitimately graduate from my Q Course.
ex_SF_Med, We weren't in the same class. I can't remember, but I think you were right in front of us. I remember your class though.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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10-27-2006, 21:52
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#15
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Quiet Professional
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by incommin
I am amazed at the things I learn on this site! I always thought that SF was the one place that would stay female free.......not that there is anything wrong with females........
Jim
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Ah, you just want to join the 'he man woman hater's club' dontcha, Alfalfa?
__________________
In the business of war, there is no invariable stategic advantage (shih) which can be relied upon at all times.
Sun-Tzu, "The Art of Warfare"
Hearing, I forget. Seeing, I remember. Writing (doing), I understand. Chinese Proverb
Too many people are looking for a magic bullet. As always, shot placement is the key. ~TR
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x SF med is offline
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