75th Make Good SF? - Page 3

greenberetTFS · 12-09-2010, 18:44

There were some of us who didn't really want to be Rangers./quote/Dozer523

I completely and wholeheartedly agree with Dozer........... Don't get me wrong I believe that the Rangers are a damn fine outfit but they weren't for me......... After I got back from NCO school I was "requested" to go for a Ranger tab by my CO...... The 75th wasn't in existence then,what you earned was the tab..........I "respectfully" told him I wasn't interested,I had already earned my EIB,and got my promotion to E-5 because of my standing at NCO school...........I was the youngest E-5(19)in the Battle Group.........I had only one thing on my mind and that was to get into SF after I re-upped.........SF was where my heart was and will always be.............Zonie expressed it better than any one I've ever known.............

Big Teddy

Bennett · 12-10-2010, 09:43

This is total BS; Ranger school is a Jr Officer/NCO leadership school, not needed for anything other than teaching basic skills to new Soldiers. These skill sets are taught at the Qualification Course, I know I was an instructor there. I only heard from two Bn CDRs during the mid 90s that they wanted all Tm Ldrs to be Ranger qualified, I happened to be a TM LDR at the time and told them it wasn’t necessary, they agreed it was for the young Officer with less experience that needed it. As for Tm Daddies I only had two out of my 22 years, Ranger qualified and they had spent all their time in SF and only went to the school for promotion points. Those coming out of the Ranger Regiment have a very hard time adjusting, for the most part, to the SF way of life. When they hit the Teams the first adjustment is we are all leaders, rank only matters for responsibility, if its commo training then the commo guys are in charge and so on. Being a JM is a matter of pride, we use to make it a priority to let the new TM LDRS go up front because their careers only allowed them a short time to do this. The NCOs had a career to do it, most TM SGTs encourage all to go and by the time a NCO gets to be An 18Z he is most likely a JM. EIBs are nice for the Infantry units and we do send the JR NCOs to get theirs for promotion points, doesn’t make a hill of beans otherwise. You will always have the badge hunters most of the time they are the guys a Team can do without and the TM SGT sends them away to one school or another, the “got ‘a have members are kept close and sometimes suffer for being so. OK my two cents, I think I have a diverse enough back ground to make such comments, feed back??? By the way there is only one Regiment and that’s the 1st SF Regiment.

craigepo · 12-10-2010, 10:57

I think that we are analyzing this incorrectly.

Initially, it is never a bad idea to get guys into SF that have a good foundation of soldiering skills. Joining the ranger regiment at 18 years of age is a good way to acquire those skills in a short amount of time.

Second, because of my present occupation, I realize that the older a man gets, the less testosterone he carries. In my observations, I note that large amounts of testosterone lead to small amounts of forethought. Parachuting onto an airfield in the face of ZSU-4 fire is a mission best done without thinking much about the mission beforehand. Ergo, this author at 19 years old bailing out of a C-130 in Panama.

Conversely, SF missions require a ton of complex forethought. That same 19 year old that would gladly invade a jungle island armed with only a knife will have a little tougher time planning and conducting a year-long mission to conquer and pacify that same jungle island. He's 19 for Pete's sake!! If the wind blows in the right direction, all of his blood drains from his brain to his genitalia!

I'm not saying that SF is a low-testosterone sport; far from it. But, SF does require a definite maturity level and skill set that is generally unheard of with young guys. Ranger missions, on the other hand, often require some good old, en masse, well-rehearsed ass-whooping that is tailor-made for young dudes.

Dozer523 · 12-10-2010, 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigepo

I think that we are analyzing this incorrectly. . . .

I'm not saying that SF is a low-testosterone sport; far from it. But, SF does require a definite maturity level and skill set that is generally unheard of with young guys.

There is also the chronogical fact that the older you are the less BS you are willing to bear.
As for the "with only a knife" stuff . . . only if it's Bill's knife.

(Is it REALLY almost Christmas?)
PS. I knew, if I waited long enough, I'd finally agree with Bennett.

Richard · 12-10-2010, 12:11

When I first got to Group, there was a lot of experience among both the NCO and Officer Corps with guys who had fought in the original Airborne and Ranger (before there was a Ranger school) units of WW2, the OSS, various foreign military units, the Korean War, and all over SEA, Latin America, and Africa.

Ranger school was looked upon as an entry-level Squad/Platoon Leader course which had grown in importance due to the emphasis on small unit patrolling by Light Infantry during our lengthy CALFX in RVN. It had also grown (like the BAC) to be viewed as an important confidence/leadership development school for young, inexperienced junior Officers and EM/NCOs.

My first B TM SGM was the first 1-0 for RT Alaska and had led the second cross-border mission for SOG; my first TM SGT had several tours in B-52 and had been an instructor at the MAC-V RECONDO School. A good number of our Officers were prior service NCOs from SF. These men were our teachers and mentors, and their focus was on teaching us to do those basics correctly as a skill-level 1 task while pushing us to further develop our PMOS skills and emphasizing the necessity of cross-training.

It was the SF way.

Ranger school at that time was more-or-less reserved for the rest of the Army who needed the slots and, other than patrolling as taught in SFTG and learned under the tutlege of our experienced NCOs in the units, our more formalized training was the IMA 1-0 School run by NCOs and Officers who had served in the 'Projects' in RVN. The Army view towards an SF NCO going to Ranger school was one of "Why are you here? You've already had this training and you're taking a slot from someone out there who needs it...are you badge collecting?"

I was back in CONUS in the 7th SFGA when they formed the Ranger Bns and we were stripped of our Ranger qualified NCOs who 'were volunteered'

for the leadership positions in those first two Bns. A number of them - senior SSGs and SFCs - retired because they did not want to go be a SQD LDR or PSG after having led platoons and companies of indigenous forces on multiple tours in RVN. Our Group CSM who wasn't Ranger qualified went to Ranger school at 43 to be the CSM for the 2nd Ranger Bn - he was the Honor Grad for his class. Go figure.

Throughout my time in Group, I saw good, mediocre, and not so good Ranger and non-Ranger qualified NCOs and Officers come and go.

My point in all this is that as much as some things change, it will always depend on the individual - whether this 'XXX' qualified or that 'XXX' qualified or some other 'XXX' qualified or not - some are SF material and some never will be. It is what makes SF what it is.

And so it goes...

Richard

Bennett · 12-10-2010, 12:59

Ah, Dozer I get my Christmas present early this year, thanks man.

12-10-2010, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bennett

This is total BS; Ranger school is a Jr Officer/NCO leadership school, not needed for anything other than teaching basic skills to new Soldiers. These skill sets are taught at the Qualification Course, I know I was an instructor there. I only heard from two Bn CDRs during the mid 90s that they wanted all Tm Ldrs to be Ranger qualified, I happened to be a TM LDR at the time and told them it wasn’t necessary, they agreed it was for the young Officer with less experience that needed it. As for Tm Daddies I only had two out of my 22 years, Ranger qualified and they had spent all their time in SF and only went to the school for promotion points. Those coming out of the Ranger Regiment have a very hard time adjusting, for the most part, to the SF way of life. When they hit the Teams the first adjustment is we are all leaders, rank only matters for responsibility, if its commo training then the commo guys are in charge and so on. Being a JM is a matter of pride, we use to make it a priority to let the new TM LDRS go up front because their careers only allowed them a short time to do this. The NCOs had a career to do it, most TM SGTs encourage all to go and by the time a NCO gets to be An 18Z he is most likely a JM. EIBs are nice for the Infantry units and we do send the JR NCOs to get theirs for promotion points, doesn’t make a hill of beans otherwise. You will always have the badge hunters most of the time they are the guys a Team can do without and the TM SGT sends them away to one school or another, the “got ‘a have members are kept close and sometimes suffer for being so. OK my two cents, I think I have a diverse enough back ground to make such comments, feed back??? By the way there is only one Regiment and that’s the 1st SF Regiment.

Bennett - Don't ask me to take over any duties at the local chapter when you're finished, I'm not qualified, missed that badge, still working on the "Magneto Kick Starter" Badge, followed by "Titanium Welding Alloy" badge, shit, damn bikers.

MVP · 12-10-2010, 13:21

Only had one ranger from bn come to one of my teams. never made the mental transition. Never liked what was different about SF and was unhappy about what was not. Tried to play rank when he could with the jr. guys but was upset when a sr tm guy put him in his place. Worked with a ranger on a committee at SWC, prefered to be addressed as "Ranger L.", went back to Bn...

Gotta agree with Don.

MVP

Irishsquid · 12-10-2010, 13:30

*Not SF or Ranger tabbed*

I was in the non-qual program at B/1/20th SFG(A) until, for financial reasons, I had to leave the unit for a while. At B Co, we had a few guys from the 75th. One of those really made the transition to SF well. One of the most stand-up guys ever to PT me until I puked. The other two, while good Soldiers and stand-up guys, just didn't seem to fit in. Screamed "Hooah," a lot, spent a lot of time at parade rest and position of attention. Got a lot of funny looks and a few laughs. Seemed like most of the other guys just had a hard time taking them seriously, not as Soldiers, but as SF.

Once again, just personal observation. I am neither SF nor Ranger tabbed.

Richard · 12-10-2010, 14:01

All this reminds me of an old cartoon we used to have posted on the B-710 SGM's bulletin board with the notices and duty rosters.

It showed a bunch of SF guys outside the orderly room waiting to be called to formation. It's raining and about a third of them are standing around in the rain and about two-thirds of them are lined up standing under the small roof partition which went around the old wooden team houses between the first and second floors (attchd pic).

Commenting on those standing out in the rain, one of the guys standing under the roof to keep dry says, "We seem to be getting a lot of Rangers in here lately."

And so it goes...

Richard

MVP · 12-10-2010, 15:04

The ranger I worked with at SWC refused to use the a/c in his truck, said it would make him weak.

MVP

12-10-2010, 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVP

The ranger I worked with at SWC refused to use the a/c in his truck, said it would make him weak.

MVP

Really? I would have guessed "cool or comfortable".

SPECTRE1 · 12-11-2010, 14:44

How many of you QP's have your Ranger tab or have served in the 75th?

**The Reaper** · 12-11-2010, 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPECTRE1

How many of you QP's have your Ranger tab or have served in the 75th?

This is easily determined by looking at the user profiles, or just reading the responses on this thread.

Is that too much trouble for you?

I am not understanding what the point is.

Have you signed your contract yet? If so, the question is moot. Do or do not.

TR

SPECTRE1 · 12-11-2010, 20:21

No sir, it is not too much trouble for me.

Actually, my recruiters are just waiting for an Option 40 with 11B/Airborne to pop into the system, and they will call me up and I'll sign it off, then I'm in.