unlawful arrest by LEO

[frostfire]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihQ1-LQOkns

Video speaks for itself
I found it disturbing on so many levels. However, it also makes me wonder what I would do if I see my peer blatantly abuses position of power and public trust like that.

We just heard on the news so many heroic and wonderful things the PD did and still does in Houston, then here comes a bad apple and availability/confirmation bias takes over as seen in most comments.

[Badger52]

I note that FNC only recently picked it up & the Commie News Network buries it online under their "Health" section (because personal liberty means so much to them). A blogger had some thoughts I'll expand on that remain a good summary which Salt Lake gov't might want to look at:

Note: Charges have not been filed against the nurse.

Fire the officer(s) who arrested her, for cause, without benefits or pension. That includes the watch commander who told the officer to drive on pursuing this line of abuse. (The officer has apparently been placed on "administrative leave" which I believe means they sit home with pay awaiting outcome of an "investigation" at the speed of glaciers.)

Refer the officer & watch commander for prosecution for false arrest, kidnapping, and violation of civil rights. (I have heard, but do not know, that a conspiracy on a misdemeanor assault then becomes a felony.)

Demote his/her/their supervisors.

Make entire department go through mandatory re-training on why this is against the law. (Welcome to Death by PowerPoint & Old-School Civics-101.)

Revoke all sovereign immunity, so the nurse, hospital, and all patients affected can sue the officer(s) in question, the city, and the SLPD, for whatever exorbitant civil damages multiple juries think are justified and fair. Something in the mid nine figure range looks appropriate based on the video. (Note to the Nurse: Please don't say "it's not about the money." You must make this kind of thing ruinously expensive or it will happen again.)

Require the mayor, the police chief, the watch commander, and the supervising sergeant(s) of the officer(s) in question make a full, forthright, rapid, and public apology, on air and in writing, to that nurse, her co-workers, the patients, hospital, staff, and citizens of of Salt Lake City for this egregious violation and badge-happy horseshit. (Given this happened back in July "rapid" is a relative term.)

Hopefully someday other officers will look at that video, as the nurse tried to explain the agreed-to joint hospital/SLPD policy and her supervisor pointed out that he was screwing the pooch, they will file under "shunned experienced counsel."

[JJ_BPK]

In one of the news articles, it was mentioned that the hospital and local LEO's has "agreed to a policy" that:

1)needed judges order or search warrant
2)person has to be under arrest
3)or has to give consent

I thought this was determined years ago at federal level???

1) on the due process, Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments
2) unreasonable search & seizure, Forth Amendment

Where are the 2L's??

Wubbels, the charge nurse in the burn unit, presented the officers with a printout of hospital policy on drawing blood and said their request did not meet the criteria. Hospital policy specified police needed either a judge's order or the patient's consent, or the patient needed to be under arrest, before obtaining a blood sample.

"I'm just trying to do what I'm supposed to do. That's all," Wubbels tells the officers, according to the body camera video.

Wubbels' attorney, Karra Porter, said Friday the university and Salt Lake City police had agreed to the policy more than a year ago and "the officers here appeared to be unaware of" it.

"There's no dispute that the blood draw policy was jointly prepared and in effect for quite some time," Porter told CNN.

Confused FOG???

[Surf n Turf]

Originally Posted by JJ_BPK

In one of the news articles, it was mentioned that the hospital and local LEO's has "agreed to a policy" that:

1)needed judges order or search warrant
2)person has to be under arrest
3)or has to give consent

I thought this was determined years ago at federal level???

1) on the due process, Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments
2) unreasonable search & seizure, Forth Amendment

Where are the 2L's??

Confused FOG???

JJ_BPK,
I'm a confused FOG.........
This detective, Jeff Payne, is a power freak, who will be obeyed !!!!.

I don't know if this involved steroids or hemorrhoids, but it sure looked like 'roid rage" to me, and you are correct that this is "settled law" (BIRCHFIELD v. NORTH DAKOTA, No. 14-1468, The Fourth Amendment permits warrantless breath tests incident to arrests for drunk driving but not warrantless blood tests. Pp. 13-36.).

As to reason, I think that this was an attempt to determine if the truck driver (and fellow LEO) had any alcohol or drugs in his system, so that if he initiated a lawsuit claiming negligence, because of the police initiated high-speed car chase that caused the crash, the PD would have a position to defend. In a written report, Payne said he was responding to a request from Logan police to get the blood sample, to determine whether the patient had illicit substances in his system at the time of the crash.

My understanding is that many PD's have outlawed high speed pursuits (except for felony arrests, i.e. Bank robbery, murder, etc.) because the results were often that the bad guy would flee, and the "chase" put citizen at risk.

SnT


http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-suprem...t/14-1468.html

[Stingray]

Originally Posted by Surf n Turf

JJ_BPK,
"because of the police initiated high-speed car chase that caused the crash" ]

I agree with everything you have said thus far, SnT, with the exception of this sentence. My thoughts are different. I think a chase initiated is because someone fails to pull over when signaled. The driver failing to pull over is responsible for the chase and not the PD. I think if we blame the PD for chases all wanted fugitives have to do is drive over X and they know they won't be followed.
I booked in a guy not long ago because a deputy saw him driving without his headlights on and attempted to pull him over. The guy fled but was apprehended. They found a woman duck taped and rope tied in his car. She was his third victim. They had no leads and no descriptions. Headlights broke the case.
These are my thoughts. Now I have spent much of my adult life working in corrections. Therefore, 8 hours per day is listening to convicted felons talk about these kind of things. So that is the prism I see this type of problem through.

Just my .02 cents.

[miclo18d]

Originally Posted by Badger52

I note that FNC only recently picked it up & the Commie News Network buries it online under their "Health" section (because personal liberty means so much to them). A blogger had some thoughts I'll expand on that remain a good summary which Salt Lake gov't might want to look at:

Note: Charges have not been filed against the nurse.

Fire the officer(s) who arrested her, for cause, without benefits or pension. That includes the watch commander who told the officer to drive on pursuing this line of abuse. (The officer has apparently been placed on "administrative leave" which I believe means they sit home with pay awaiting outcome of an "investigation" at the speed of glaciers.)

Refer the officer & watch commander for prosecution for false arrest, kidnapping, and violation of civil rights. (I have heard, but do not know, that a conspiracy on a misdemeanor assault then becomes a felony.)

Demote his/her/their supervisors.

Make entire department go through mandatory re-training on why this is against the law. (Welcome to Death by PowerPoint & Old-School Civics-101.)

Revoke all sovereign immunity, so the nurse, hospital, and all patients affected can sue the officer(s) in question, the city, and the SLPD, for whatever exorbitant civil damages multiple juries think are justified and fair. Something in the mid nine figure range looks appropriate based on the video. (Note to the Nurse: Please don't say "it's not about the money." You must make this kind of thing ruinously expensive or it will happen again.)

Require the mayor, the police chief, the watch commander, and the supervising sergeant(s) of the officer(s) in question make a full, forthright, rapid, and public apology, on air and in writing, to that nurse, her co-workers, the patients, hospital, staff, and citizens of of Salt Lake City for this egregious violation and badge-happy horseshit. (Given this happened back in July "rapid" is a relative term.)

Hopefully someday other officers will look at that video, as the nurse tried to explain the agreed-to joint hospital/SLPD policy and her supervisor pointed out that he was screwing the pooch, they will file under "shunned experienced counsel."

Somewhat knee jerk solution there badger... the same punishment you would undoubtedly complain about if a soldier had assaulted a woman and you were in his CoC and were fired, demoted, or en masse "reeducated"

Mass punishment rarely get the desired results. Punish the guilty type up a memo that openly explains the laws that were broken and how to avoid your own firing if this were to be abused by another officer. Done. And be quick about it. In today's fast paced world justice gets hidden after 6mo-3yr investigations that end in secrecy with the officer wrapped on the wrist (thanks to their commie unions).

[Badger52]

Originally Posted by miclo18d

Somewhat knee jerk solution there badger... the same punishment you would undoubtedly complain about if a soldier had assaulted a woman and you were in his CoC and were fired, demoted, or en masse "reeducated"

You're right IF it was an isolated incident and there was no continued pattern of tolerance for such things. However, as is shown in this 2nd video, where an officer indicates to one of the hospital security staff (before Payne goes ballistic) that they do this kind of thing all the time, there is a rationale for going higher than the officers on scene. Absent other information I'll stick by making the consequences horrible when such a pattern of cavalier disregard for law - by a police department - exists. (That said, I'm sure the powers in the city are busy distancing themselves as much as possible, invoking the old IMF rules against their Mr. Phelps in the ER.)

[Badger52]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

So if a guy robs a bank just once or kidnaps a kid just once he should not be prosecuted? This is not an incident of gray area, bad judgement or loosing his cool in the heat of an incident this is outright violation of the law.

That was not what I said at all. Relook what I posted in context of replying to the previous post by miclo18d.

[miclo18d]

Originally Posted by Badger52

You're right IF it was an isolated incident and there was no continued pattern of tolerance for such things. However, as is shown in this 2nd video, where an officer indicates to one of the hospital security staff (before Payne goes ballistic) that they do this kind of thing all the time, there is a rationale for going higher than the officers on scene. Absent other information I'll stick by making the consequences horrible when such a pattern of cavalier disregard for law - by a police department - exists. (That said, I'm sure the powers in the city are busy distancing themselves as much as possible, invoking the old IMF rules against their Mr. Phelps in the ER.)

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

The officer called the on duty Lt. and the Lt. told him to arrest the nurse and take the blood. He is culpable as well. Illegal order given and illegal order obeyed, they are both shit bags unless the Lt. was led astray by a less than truthful story from the officer.

True, I needed to look into it a little deeper. It would appear that there may be an endemic problem at the SLC PD. I agree that there should be some serious hammers dropped. However, I have seen where dropping hammers is counter productive and those "good" cops (or soldiers, or other group, etc) will feel they have done something wrong or are being punisher for some asshole they never liked to begin with. Again punish those that did wrong, teach others why they were punished, give proper procedures to others so that it doesn't happen again.

The part that troubles me is that normally cops and hospitals are extremely fond of each other. Nurses help cops and cops help them (at least here in Tampa).

[Badger52]

Originally Posted by miclo18d

The part that troubles me is that normally cops and hospitals are extremely fond of each other. Nurses help cops and cops help them (at least here in Tampa).

I agree; sad because it denigrates the mechanism on a larger scale & is likely to taint relationships built over time. Hope not; I know a couple local RN's & they function very well with the (admittedly small in comparison) PD here and, ultimately, that success occurs in conduct between 2 people interacting, day in/day out. As Ten Bears said in Josey Wales, "No paper can hold the iron. It must come from men."

As an aside, the officer's body language pre-arrest speaks volumes.

[Texas_Shooter]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/09/0...nurses-arrest/

He really picked on the wrong profession. What he did wasn't that bad, as its been said on this forum he was following orders but because of the public outcry, especially nationwide, someone will need to go and someone will probably be demoted. Should any sort of charges be pressed against him...NO.

Those who yield great authority must exercise great judgement and restraint. Handcuffing a nurse who is CLEARLY following hospital policy is not showing restraint but to me is showing himself to be a hothead and quick to action instead of using his greatest weapon, his mind.

https://youtu.be/yia7qs01z1M

Heres more of the video. In not sure who that is thats talking to her when she's in the car but it seems like a supervisor to the Detective that arrested her.

I wanna know what the DA or ADA said to the arresting officer when they called them to see what they could formally charge her with. If the hospitals lawyers had were already ahead of the cops and calling the District Attorney's Office to see what was going on.

[Peregrino]

Originally Posted by Texas_Shooter

http://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/09/0...nurses-arrest/

---- Should any sort of charges be pressed against him...NO.-------

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? In other words - I disagree with you - vehemently. Police are endowed by their communities with the power to deprive persons of life and liberty. Those who wield great authority must exercise great judgement and restraint. This officer (?) did none of that, instead choosing to abuse the power inherent in his position. This asshat needs to be prosecuted to the maximum extent of the law. Criminally and again civilly. And his department with him. Start with assault and false imprisonment, maybe add some conspiracy charges and go from there. The only legal way to restrain abusive law enforcement is to make examples of the perpetrators and levy crippling fines against their departments. That way, when the insurance company refuses to pay and the taxpayer is left holding the bag, maybe the citizens will force a house cleaning and the example will induce restraint in other agencies.

And yes - one asshat screws it for everyone. On the other hand, I'm sure there were any number of his fellow police officers who knew he was prone to "acting out" inappropriately and did nothing to prevent it.

[Badger52]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

No that is EXACTLY what you said but because he has a badge you are applying a diffrent standard. If that was some guy on the street tying her up and putting in his van for 20 min then letting her go you would say he needs to go to prison. The fact the was wearing a badge makes no differance.

Last try:
miclo18d inquired about my approach to punishing more than just the officer. I pointed out (to use your street analogy) that he had accomplices (e.g., getaway driver/person who held the victim down/supervisor). Certainly if it's the one perp he needs to get tossed in the can; if there are others in a conspiracy or who facilitate the law-breaking, they're fair game too (as I believe in this case). Nowhere did I imply a different standard because the offender wears a badge.

Although a case could be made, since they are often the benefactors of case-law erring on the side of LE, that they should be held to a higher standard, that's another discussion. He assaulted her & wrongfully imprisoned her subsequent to trying to solicit her to commit a battery that she wasn't going to take part in. That's enough, badge or no badge. Trackin' yet?

[Texas_Shooter]

Originally Posted by Peregrino

...This asshat needs to be prosecuted to the maximum extent of the law. Criminally and again civilly. And his department with him. Start with assault and false imprisonment, maybe add some conspiracy charges and go from there. The only legal way to restrain abusive law enforcement is to make examples of the perpetrators and levy crippling fines against their departments. That way, when the insurance company refuses to pay and the taxpayer is left holding the bag, maybe the citizens will force a house cleaning and the example will induce restraint in other agencies.

And yes - one asshat screws it for everyone. On the other hand, I'm sure there were any number of his fellow police officers who knew he was prone to "acting out" inappropriately and did nothing to prevent it.

If she had been slammed up against the wall or pavement or he used her head to dent the top of his roof, I ONE HUNDRED PERCENT agree with you about the criminal and civil punishment part. He will more than likely loose his job and that should be punishment enough for him. This will stain his professional jacket for the rest of his life. Google his name and his name pops up. So he is up shit creek without a paddle. Maybe a rent-a-cop gig where he gets a flash light and maybe some mace. That right there should be punishment enough. And yes you're right one asshat messes it up for everyone. One of the articles said that police departments all over Utah were getting complaints about this incident even though it had nothing to do with their department.

[Peregrino]

Originally Posted by Texas_Shooter

If she had been slammed up against the wall or pavement or he used her head to dent the top of his roof, I ONE HUNDRED PERCENT agree with you about the criminal and civil punishment part. He will more than likely loose his job and that should be punishment enough for him. This will stain his professional jacket for the rest of his life. Google his name and his name pops up. So he is up shit creek without a paddle. Maybe a rent-a-cop gig where he gets a flash light and maybe some mace. That right there should be punishment enough. And yes you're right one asshat messes it up for everyone. One of the articles said that police departments all over Utah were getting complaints about this incident even though it had nothing to do with their department.

It doesn't (or shouldn't) take being slammed up against the wall or pavement or having her head used to dent the top of his roof to initiate criminal and civil sanctions. If you, in the capacity of a private citizen, had done the same to someone, where would you be today? I contend you would be in jail awaiting trial, just like that neo-Nazi tool in WV who pepper sprayed the ANTIFA thug to keep from getting his ass beat by the "counter-demonstrators". Why should a rouge law enforcement agent not face at least the same sanctions?

And no - I don't think I'm being overly harsh. I've never been a cop; however, I spent 28 years as a Soldier. Every time I was someplace "hostile" I knew my every action was subject to second guessing by armchair quarterbacks with no skin in the game. I (just like every other Soldier who goes/has gone into harm's way) was held to an impossible standard because I too had the power of life and/or imprisonment over people with whom I interacted. I was expected to exercise that "great restraint" and I expected to be held accountable if I failed to act as charged. (Besides - it was good policy. Mess over civilians in a COIN conflict and they'll figure out how to kill you; not a problem US cops ever face.) I've no problem demanding that LEOs be held to a similar standard and punished severely when they fail to uphold it. Again - Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? I say it is all of us.

As for losing his job and never getting another one in law enforcement - I don't believe it for a minute. There are too many instances of bad cops moving one county or city over and going right back to work in a different department with a clean slate.