06-15-2009, 12:15
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#16
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: 11 miles from Dove Creek, Colorady
Posts: 3,924
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Ghurkas, that's what we need! WE have no dang Colonial Troops.
Maybe we could use Samoans. OD grass skirts?
Or hillbillies. Isn't West Virginia a colony?
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Lazy Bob Ranch
Last edited by Utah Bob; 06-15-2009 at 14:15.
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Utah Bob is offline
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06-15-2009, 14:02
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#17
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NorCal
Posts: 15,370
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Food for thought...
Richard's $.02
Quote:
American Sikhs Run Billion-Dollar Security Firm
John Burnett, NPR, 13 Jun 2009
In the high desert town of Espanola, N.M., you'll find a community of American Sikhs — converts to the 500-year-old Sikh religion from India. With a gold-domed temple as a backdrop, men and women live quiet lives of meditation, yoga and vegetarianism.
They also run a big business.
Next to the elaborate temple is a cluster of drab modular buildings that constitute the headquarters of Akal Security. The reach of this Sikh-founded and Sikh-managed company is huge.
In most cities across the country, for example, the guards who run the metal detectors at the doors of federal courthouses work for Akal Security.
In just the past three years, Akal and its subsidiary, Coastal International Security, earned more than $1 billion in federal contracts. In addition to screening people at federal courthouses, Akal also guards immigration detention centers, NASA facilities, federal buildings in Washington, D.C., and embassies under construction from Ecuador to Iraq.
Origins Of Akal
"Akal means undying or deathless," says Daya Singh Khalsa, president of Akal Security. "It was a battle cry for Sikhs."
Like most Sikh men, Singh Khalsa wears a turban, and on religious occasions he carries a kirpan, or sacred sword, a symbol of the Sikh warrior-saint tradition of defending the defenseless. To this day, this tradition is at the philosophical heart of Akal Security.
"We feel very good about the role we play to keep thousands or hundreds of thousands of people safe when they visit federal facilities," Singh Khalsa says.
Yet, as president of a major security company that employs 10,000 guards, Singh Khalsa has to take pains to keep religion and business separate. "We're here to run a business," he insists. And because federal contracts prohibit guards from wearing headgear, you won't see any Sikhs manning the metal detectors.
Akal is a private for-profit company. When asked where all the profits go, Singh Khalsa says they're reinvested in the company; individual Sikhs who work for Akal make generous donations to Sikh Dharma, the nonprofit religious organization.
The Sikh Dharma Of New Mexico
Espanola is the largest community of American Sikhs, composed of about 150 families. It was founded by Yogi Bhajan, a Sikh yoga master who came to the U.S. from India in 1968 to teach kundalini yoga. By the time he died in 2004, Yogi Bhajan was recognized as the founder and spiritual leader of what are now loosely called "Western Sikhs," to distinguish them from their Indian counterparts.
Akal president Singh Khalsa was born Daniel Cohn, the son of a New York department store executive; he grew up in the Connecticut suburbs, graduated with an English degree from Amherst College, and drifted to the then-new Sikh colony in New Mexico to pursue his interest in yoga and meditation.
All Western Sikhs have the last name Khalsa, which means "purity."
The life of a devout Sikh is rigorous: up at 4 a.m. for a cold shower, then 2.5 hours of prayers and meditation. They do not drink alcohol or eat meat. And no one gets a haircut — ever. Their hair is coiled under their turbans.
Rules that prohibit Sikhs from joining American law enforcement because they don't cut their hair may be softening. Last year, the Espanola Police Department hired its first bearded, turbaned policeman — Officer Khalsa — though he has since moved on.
Five years after the death of their spiritual leader, the Sikh community in New Mexico appears to be healthy. Some families have moved away; others have come. Akal has lost some business, but there is always next year. And in an alcove inside the gold-domed temple, there is someone — day and night — reading the sacred songs of the Sikhs.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=104869550
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“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)
“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
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Richard is offline
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06-15-2009, 14:32
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#18
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 377
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To the prev poster who mentioned about jewish soldiers wearing yarmulkes... it's ALREADY allowed. Although, to be fair, wearing one of those does not interfere with proper wear of regulation headgear, helmet or pro mask...
OTOH, while I agree the Sikh's turbans WILL interfere with all of those, I say give them a damn exception. One problem with this country today is not enough warriors ("Army of One", "the Me generation" etc), and if a natural warrior ethnic group wants to join, but has a genuine religious issue preventing them, I say go ahead and make the accomodation.
Yes, yes, you're going to get the wise-ass privates who suddenly decide to "convert" and want to wear beards, but they can be handled the same way as a private who suddenly discovers he's a consciencious objector when it becomes suddenly convenient.
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RichL025 is offline
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06-15-2009, 14:53
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#19
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,780
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Hey, here is a thought...
If you want to be a warrior in the US Army, you get an exception from your religion to permit you to conform with our religion, as described in AR 670-1.
If not, we will call you back when they get to our gates.
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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06-15-2009, 16:42
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#20
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Lower Alabama
Posts: 649
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I do not think there are enough Sikhs willing to volunteer to make this worth the hassle. Personally, I would rather see a "Hispanic Legion" where we recruit Latin Americans with previous military/police experience for 5yrs in Combat Arms & then offer them citizenship afterwards. I know we would get more volunteers than we would have positions.
x/S
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exsquid is offline
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06-15-2009, 17:39
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#21
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RIP Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Ozarks
Posts: 10,072
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As a Shaolin Warrior-Priest with a shaven face and head, I am able to get a "good seal" and still take the pebble from your hand.
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Dusty is offline
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06-15-2009, 18:48
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#22
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exsquid
I do not think there are enough Sikhs willing to volunteer to make this worth the hassle.
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Ultimately, I think this is the very reason why it won't change.
Demographics and how it impacts manpower resources is what will drive the military towards amending regulations. Countries like India have no choice but to allow variation in its uniform since a bulk of its recruits come from the Sikh community. Couple that with colonial tradition of various units coming from different communities, accommodation is provided. To note, many Sikhs do not wear the full sized turban in the field. They will have their hair wrapped in "bun" covered by a cloth the size of a large handkerchief. Example
Besides the politics, its the reason why women and minorities were integrated into the military and gays won't be accommodated (unless the hand is forced by politics). Minorities and women constitute a large population from which manpower can be absorbed, gays or smaller communities like Sikhs aren't in significant enough numbers.
In any case, I believe there are Sikhs serving in other capacities that have beards (medical staff). There are also Sikhs that don't follow religious tradition and serve as well.
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smp52 is offline
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06-15-2009, 19:33
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#23
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty
As a Shaolin Warrior-Priest with a shaven face and head, I am able to get a "good seal" and still take the pebble from your hand.
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Just be careful in those closets with that rope, I hear that's murder on Shaolin priests.....
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RichL025 is offline
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06-15-2009, 19:34
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#24
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brush Okie
I gues I look at it in a simple way. Are they American or are they a Sikh? You can only serve one master. If you try to be a sikh in the US Army are your loyalties split? I admit I know very little of their culture so I may be off base here, but the same goes for any other group.
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Are you an American or a Christian? Are you only serving one master?
Are your loyalties split as a Christian in the army?
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Ars Longa, vita brevis
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RichL025 is offline
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06-15-2009, 19:53
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#25
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RIP Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Ozarks
Posts: 10,072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL025
Just be careful in those closets with that rope, I hear that's murder on Shaolin priests.....
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The guy you're talking about would have been fine if he hadn't choked there at the last second.
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Dusty is offline
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06-15-2009, 20:05
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#26
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brush Okie
I gues I look at it in a simple way. Are they American or are they a Sikh? You can only serve one master. If you try to be a sikh in the US Army are your loyalties split? I admit I know very little of their culture so I may be off base here, but the same goes for any other group.
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A diversity counselor came to where we work at. He was endorsed by the Navy higher ups. In any case, we thought it was going to be another dog and pony show with someone mentioning how we must be all PC.
The first thing this elderly gentleman, who was Puerto Rican in background said was," I want the whole room to say - Thank you white American males." Very counter intuitive from our expectations and threw us a major curve ball. He explained further that while many American white males were racist in the past, it was also the American white male demographic that decided racism was wrong, and gave many minorities a chance to break out of the group think. His first opportunity came when a white man recognized his talents and gave him an academic opportunity. He also dived into the fact that demographic shifts, the end of the draft changed how manpower was obtained (the most important resource of the military, as cold as it sounds) and that dictates who is allowed to participate or not from a volume standpoint. Women are 50% of the population and other minorities such as blacks in enough numbers to contribute. WWII and Korea brought about a change in how blacks were treated in the military, end of the draft meant more women in the military to fulfill non-combat needs, etc. These paralleled cultural shifts as well, but the military's goal is to defeat the enemy. With that primary task in hand, what potential populations can serve [enter need here]?
In a numbers game, there just aren't enough Sikhs to change the military's cost/benefit analysis. Say if 20% of our population were Sikhs, you'd see different policies. In India's population of a billion, Sikhs are a small group BUT they volunteer at a VERY high rate thereby providing significant source of manpower. Each country's military policy is different as it serves (in a democracy) different and unique populations. If number crunchers show a benefit in having Sikhs in the military due to their solid history of serving Indian, British, and other countries, regs will change. But I find that unlikely due to the population being relatively small. We're talking 2 million people of south asian decent in the United States out of 300 million. And from those 2 million, Sikhs are just a slice of the pie.
I may be wrong as well. Just my 2 cents...
Last edited by smp52; 06-15-2009 at 20:20.
Reason: Clarity, grammar, typos
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06-15-2009, 21:13
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#27
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 2,292
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This whole thing is stupid.
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Period.
The needs of the many are for order and discipline. What next, allowing bozo the clown wigs?
Just like a lot of other issues... personal liberties and freedom take a backseat to the regulations of the Army.
The whole, PC, "unity/strength through our differences" Orweillian double-speak is bullshit.
This guy needs to go away and be thankful he's not being prosecuted.
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abc_123 is offline
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06-16-2009, 06:31
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#28
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RIP Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Ozarks
Posts: 10,072
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I don't know, what do Sikhs worship? You take that away and it's just another hat, right?
Stetsons and buckles for Air Cav, different colored Berets, Tanker Boots-I went to a couple schools at Bragg with a SEAL with a beard back in the '80's-we don't all wear the same garb.
I ate chow with a Sikh at Mackall one time, and he had an outstanding attitude. As far as fighting, as with the Ghurkas, I've never heard anything negative about 'em.
Maybe they could work something out-a Sikh unit or the like, similar to the Ghurka outfits. This Country could use every good fighter it can assimilate into the ranks right now, IMO.
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Dusty is offline
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06-16-2009, 07:02
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#29
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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15th Century
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty
I don't know, what do Sikhs worship? .....
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The Sihk religion was founded by Guru Nanak in the 15th Century.
It is a monolithic religion believing in one God, but a God more in line with the universe and not a single person type God.
I would guess, as with most strict religions, the hair and turban are a sign of one's devotion (that ain't the right word, I know) to the teachings of that religion.
Edited to paste in the 5 Ks
"...Baptised Sikhs are bound to wear the Five Ks (in Punjabi known as pańj kakkē or pańj kakār), or articles of faith, at all times. The tenth guru, Gobind Singh, ordered these Five Ks to be worn so that a Sikh could actively use them to make a difference to their own and to others' spirituality. The 5 items are: kēs (uncut hair), kaṅghā (small comb), kaṛā (circular iron bracelet), kirpān (ceremonial short sword), and kacchā (special undergarment). The Five Ks have both practical and symbolic purposes...."
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Pete is offline
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06-16-2009, 07:19
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#30
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RIP Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Ozarks
Posts: 10,072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
The Sihk religion was founded by Guru Nanak in the 15th Century.
It is a monolithic religion believing in one God, but a God more in line with the universe and not a single person type God.
I would guess, as with most strict religions, the hair and turban are a sign of one's devotion (that ain't the right word, I know) to the teachings of that religion.
Edited to paste in the 5 Ks
"...Baptised Sikhs are bound to wear the Five Ks (in Punjabi known as pańj kakkē or pańj kakār), or articles of faith, at all times. The tenth guru, Gobind Singh, ordered these Five Ks to be worn so that a Sikh could actively use them to make a difference to their own and to others' spirituality. The 5 items are: kēs (uncut hair), kaṅghā (small comb), kaṛā (circular iron bracelet), kirpān (ceremonial short sword), and kacchā (special undergarment). The Five Ks have both practical and symbolic purposes...."
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Good info. Thanks.
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Dusty is offline
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