The Demise of the Green Berets

[CDRODA396]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I'm not sure I like the sound of that.

TR

I'm thinking...and hopeing he meant "rare!"

[JJ_BPK]

Originally Posted by Scimitar

TWO: USASF is one of those rear fraternities....TR

I'm gonna take WAG,, he ment to say rare ??


Roget's II: The New Thesaurus
Main Entry: rare
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: Far beyond what is usual, normal, or customary.
Synonyms: exceptional, extraordinary, magnificent, outstanding, preeminent, remarkable, singular, towering, uncommon, unusual

[Scimitar]

Um...S**T...sorry gents,

A little hung over, Mondays my day off you know.

I guess I took the gay analogy a little too far. ;-)

Any thoughts or G2 on the idea

Scimitar

[Go For Broke]

I think that one big issue in this whole discussion on the marginalization of SF FID is the use of the term "Combat" FID, and I think it is tied to our focus on named operations.

When SOCOM thinks FID, it is thinking SF (majority), then it is thinking NSW / AFSOC, and finally MARSOC. Do those organizations (NSW / AFSOC) do FID things better than us? The answer is not a clear yes or no. Well, unless someone knows of an SF team somewhere that can teach the HN to fly aircraft, conduct base operations / maintenance, repair boat engines, conduct riverine patrols, etc

Unfortunately, because of the focus of the U.S. on events in the CENTCOM AOR right now, much of the preparation for / prevention of future wars goes unnoticed (as it probably should be). Having spent the last 9+ months here in the "intellectual center of the Army" (where is the ROTFLMAO icon?) and talking with guys I have not seen since the Q Course, they are unaware of the numerous events that we (SF & other SOF) conduct globally. I do feel that we, SF, need to let others know that we are doing this stuff, hence our value, unfortunately if we are doing our job properly the media never finds out.

I do have to give the Marines credit though, they are great salesmen. They can really package a product, market it, reap the profits, and then ask themselves, "OK...so how do we do this now?" If you look closely at their MARSOC capabilities brief (available if you google it) - some of their "Marine" pictures feature guys wearing BDUs, conducting FID with HN forces - oh, and the pics were taken AFTER the Marines had switched to the digital cammies (again, marketing - "original concept by the U.S. Marines...umm, after the Canadian Forces...umm, I forgot to mention that the U.S. Army experimented with a primitive version of it in the 1970's" (and yes, they do admit that it is not a Marine but rather a Army SF guy conducting the FID training, but only after you call them on the pic - because you recognize the guy as someone you once threw out of a Cessna in flight )

Just my humble $0.02

V/R,

[USANick7]

I can not think of a time in history where SF wasn't under siege from CF. It appears that the only time we are permitted to do our Jobs the way God and Aaron bank intended is when we are protected on high by some politician or another.

President Kennedy, and then remaining members of his staff during portions of the Johnson admin.

During the 80's it was the "SOF Mafia" in congress

During the GWOT it was Rumsfeld.

After Afghanistan I think allot of SF guys assumed that the case had been made and that it was no longer an issue.

That has not turned out to be the case. CF is just as hot, if not more so to control us.

Unless we find another politician with enough clout and understanding of the importance of "division of labor" in warfare, I think we are in for some hard times.

I cannot belive how much time I spend making power point slides.

[mark46th]

As I said before Nicky7- There is still a lot of professional jealousy at work against SF.

[LongTabSigO]

Originally Posted by SF_BHT

I was in 5th during the Days of Guest..... I honestly think that if Joe D. was not there a lot of us would have quit...and gone to another group....or even SWC

Remembering those days myself, I'd say that this is a very accurate assessment. I seem to remember there also being a significant degree of angst associated with missions in Lebanon being given to the crew at Devens.

[Box]

this trip I heard a field grade officer say (I didnt just 'hear' him say it, he said it TO me)
"The col. may write my OER, but I work for the BCT commander"

Now call me crazy but that attitude at the field grade level scares the shit out of me

[dennisw]

In the 2008 issue of The Year in Special Operations published by faircountmediagroup there is an article about the Special Forces Association. In the article entitled, The Brotherhood - The Special Forces Association Supports the SF Community by Amy P. MACK, she interviews retired SGM Ron McCan who states that one of the purposes of SFA is being a sounding board or mouthpiece to air any problems that active duty members might bring to them. "We help bring up issues to the command for active duty guys that are not in a position to do so. For example, we seem to have a problem getting our general officers promoted beyond a two-star level. When our A-teams go overseas under their own command, they go in and do their job as force multipliers. But it frustrates active duty guys to then have a conventional force commander come in and lay out a completely different mission. The things they have just done to build the rapport with the indigenous people have been blown, and then we've lost their trust and we are back to square one again."

I believe SFA folks should be applauded for their efforts. However, it is disappointing that the folks on active duty believe they are unable to air their grievances in the current political atmosphere without suffering retribution of some kind.

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Billy L-bach

"The col. may write my OER, but I work for the BCT commander"

The lad ought to be happy he never worked for me, I would have fired his ass. Who rates him should be immaterial but he should never lose track that he works for his troops to ensure that they can accomplish the tasks assigned.

[LongTabSigO]

Originally Posted by Billy L-bach

this trip I heard a field grade officer say (I didnt just 'hear' him say it, he said it TO me)
"The col. may write my OER, but I work for the BCT commander"

Now call me crazy but that attitude at the field grade level scares the shit out of me

I'm missing the context under which this was uttered.

[LongTabSigO]

Originally Posted by dennisw

In the 2008 issue of The Year in Special Operations published by faircountmediagroup there is an article about the Special Forces Association. In the article entitled, The Brotherhood - The Special Forces Association Supports the SF Community by Amy P. MACK, she interviews retired SGM Ron McCan who states that one of the purposes of SFA is being a sounding board or mouthpiece to air any problems that active duty members might bring to them. "We help bring up issues to the command for active duty guys that are not in a position to do so. For example, we seem to have a problem getting our general officers promoted beyond a two-star level. When our A-teams go overseas under their own command, they go in and do their job as force multipliers. But it frustrates active duty guys to then have a conventional force commander come in and lay out a completely different mission. The things they have just done to build the rapport with the indigenous people have been blown, and then we've lost their trust and we are back to square one again."

I believe SFA folks should be applauded for their efforts. However, it is disappointing that the folksactive duty believe they are unable to air their grievances in the current political atmosphere without suffering retribution of some kind.

The idea of SFA remains sound. However, it is undergoing some significant angst as the old guard and the new generation are not seeing the SFA the same way. (There's also some more mundane buffoonery, but I'll not air that here.)

SFA has no way of promoting the cause of the SF Regiment to the power brokers that can put the right people in higher leadership positions; they are not physically situated, nor appropriately populated with senior enough leaders, to credibly do that. So questions of SOF command and control are not going to be solved by telling the SF Command CG something I'm positive he already knows.

SGM McCann is a great American and recognizes that the Association is off azimuth. However, there are significant differences of opinion, between groups of well-intentioned SFers, on whether the National Leadership understands the scope of the problem and is, therefore, applying the appropriate fixes. Following the logic of the complaints aired in the article, SF National HQ should either be in Tampa, lobbying USSOCOM, or in DC lobbying the Service Chiefs, the JCS and/or Congress.

Also, the jury is out as to how well SFA is getting the SF story out. Consider this: This forum (Professional Soldiers) touts itself as the largest presence of US Army Special Forces on the Internet. SFA theoretically already should be the largest since being SF is the main requirement for membership. It's a fair bet that the membership rolls of the two forums differ more than they agree.

I'm not sure the SFA is, right now, the instrument of choice.

[Stryker1A]

Originally Posted by Jack Moroney

The lad ought to be happy he never worked for me, I would have fired his ass. Who rates him should be immaterial but he should never lose track that he works for his troops to ensure that they can accomplish the tasks assigned.

Well said, Sir. The problem with alot of young ambitious officers is that they lose site of our role...Simply put, "To serve our soldiers and make sure they all have the adequate equipment and training to accomplish the mission". Sometimes you will take a few sable round for your NCOs and troops, but more than 50% of the time, they will keep you from looking like a horse's behind.

I feel that USASF is an essential asset that we have, but because of the lack of knowledge of their capabilities/lack of marketing/media coverage people in the public and higher command just don't know what it is you guys do. I was train by USASF soldiers in the mountains in Garmesh, GE back in 1993 in preparation for my deployment to the mountains of Macedonia. The driver's training and the cold weather training to this date is some of the best training I ever had! It would be a travesty to even mention the "down-sizing" or question the necessity of the SOF meaning USASF. The QP's are an excellent train force that can be utilized anywhere in the world at a moments notice to acheive a decisive victory using minimal resources and force.

This is essentially epitamizes the goal of every military operation..."Victory through minimal resources and minimal force!"

SCOUTS OUT!!-STRYKER1A

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Stryker1A

Sometimes you will take a few sable round for your NCOs and troops...

Have you guys added fur coats to your Cav ensemble?

[Stryker1A]

Originally Posted by Razor

Have you guys added fur coats to your Cav ensemble?

Ordered mine last week, waiting for it to come FedEx. They are most excellent used in a cold weather field environments where blending into the urban community is essential to survival. I even heard they were making them standard issue for USASF. And don't forget our big P.I.M.P. gold chains too!LOL!!

The sad part of the matter is, I deployed with a support unit to Germany for training a few years ago for my secondary enlisted MOS and we had weekend offduty. Lo and behold when we all ensembled to go downtown in Frankfurt, GE...it was a D_M FOOL actually wearing a fur coat, a thick A_S gold chain, and a pimp hat!! I thought it was a practical joke, but he seriously wore the crap out!OMG!! It took all I had not to laugh in his face at how ridiculous he looked and the simple fact is, that is what gives Americans a bad name when we are in other countries acting as Ambassadors. Absolutely RIDICULOUS!!

Thanks for busting my chops, Razor! YOU keep me on my toes, brother!!Ha!ha!

SCOUTS OUT!-STRYKER1A