08-02-2005, 20:45
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#91
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 215
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x
Last edited by DoctorDoom; 07-29-2013 at 08:51.
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08-02-2005, 21:18
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#92
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorDoom
Which NGO's are "forcing" investigations? I thought the Colombians themselves wanted these criminals prosecuted? What options are there without trial and punishment?
Apparently, anti-pipeline activity directed against Oxy's assets in Ecuador is picking up. That and the Ecuadorean political morass recently is making my friend in Quito pull his hair out.
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All of them. The FARC are terrorists. You don't send a DA in a taxi to investigate and try terrorists. You send shooters to shoot them in the face. Terrorism is not a law enforcement issue.
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Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
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08-02-2005, 21:36
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#93
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 215
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x
Last edited by DoctorDoom; 07-29-2013 at 08:48.
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08-02-2005, 21:46
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#94
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
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They are arresting and trying them because the cowards won't stand and fight, they surrender. As long as they keep deporting them to the US, I don't really have a problem with it. The jails in Colombia are a joke and there is no death penalty.
They aren't focusing on it anymore and most of that was done as a condition of aid. Since 9-11, the focus is different.
Make no mistake about it, what progress haqs been made has been made at the end of an iron fist.
What's wrong with "secret military actions"?
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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08-03-2005, 06:29
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#95
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorDoom
The attempt to fight FARC solely with shooters in the past had failed and lead to the rise of the paramilitaries, hardly an improvement in the situation.
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That is not what gave rise to the paramilitaries.
__________________
They only the victory win
Who have fought the good fight and have vanquished the demon that tempts us within;
Who have held to their faith unseduced by the prize that the world holds on high;
Who have dared for a high cause to suffer, resist, fight—if need be, to die.
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08-03-2005, 06:49
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#96
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
The jails in Colombia are a joke and there is no death penalty.
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I've been in tutoring sessions to get my Spanish back up to a 3+ and my prof is a former lawyer and Colombian MI officer. We were talking the other day about one of the prisons where there had been a massive firefight between the paramilitary and guerrilla inmates. Another prison has different levels of rooms you can 'rent'. Some have flat panel tvs, desks, computers. The same prison also has an Italian resturant (the chef is in on drug smuggling).
__________________
They only the victory win
Who have fought the good fight and have vanquished the demon that tempts us within;
Who have held to their faith unseduced by the prize that the world holds on high;
Who have dared for a high cause to suffer, resist, fight—if need be, to die.
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08-03-2005, 10:37
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#97
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tampa
Posts: 221
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DD: the use of the LE approach as adding some kind of “legitimacy” may seem like a useful or rational method but it's rather naive in its implementation in Colombia. Since FARC and ELN traditionally garner less than 5% of political support WITHIN COLOMBIA, your suggestion would have very little practical impact except in Paris, Berlin or the coffee houses in Berkeley, CA. If you ask the Jose or Maria on the streets of Bogotá he/she wants a resounding military defeat of the G with the G leaders hanging from the nearest tree.
Not until Uribe has any Col Govt. made a serious attempt at resolving this conflict. Pastrana tried, but he was naive and failed. That’s why Pastrana in the last year of his Presidency was forced to forgo the political process and launched a military offensive to re-secure the "safe-haven" which was turned over to FARC at the on-set of his presidency.
I have said this before and I will say it again, it's all about the money. I agree that the Col Govt. needs to use traditional LE SOP's in fighting FARC, as part of its tool box, but this conflict will only end once the senior leadership of FARC is feeding worms and the big three money sources (narco, kidnapping and extortion) are effectively attacked. Making dead Gs, tracking and seizing G funds, are the keys to success. Arresting G commanders and doing the perp walk will accomplish nothing except to centralize the G’s C&C.
Prior to 1993, FARC and ELN were a nuisance and not much of a threat, WHY? If you are looking to resolve this conflict, then understanding and appreciating the answer to this question would be a good place to start. The answer is truly IRONIC, especially given the LE recommendation!
Last edited by FILO; 08-03-2005 at 10:45.
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08-03-2005, 11:49
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#98
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
I've been in tutoring sessions to get my Spanish back up to a 3+ and my prof is a former lawyer and Colombian MI officer. We were talking the other day about one of the prisons where there had been a massive firefight between the paramilitary and guerrilla inmates. Another prison has different levels of rooms you can 'rent'. Some have flat panel tvs, desks, computers. The same prison also has an Italian resturant (the chef is in on drug smuggling).
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"Patios" - each group has their own. It is outrageous.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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08-03-2005, 12:13
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#99
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Consigliere
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland (at last)
Posts: 8,767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
Cual es su problema.
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Gracias. Mi espanol es muy malo.
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Roguish Lawyer is offline
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08-03-2005, 12:37
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#100
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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Pesimo, pero no es tu culpa, nadie te entreno. No hay problema.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
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08-07-2005, 14:15
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#101
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
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State Department Certifies Colombia's Cooperation on Human Rights
Rice determines that Colombia meets statutory criteria for U.S. aid
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has determined and certified that the government and armed forces of Colombia meet statutory criteria on respect for human rights, says Tom Casey, the U.S. State Department's acting spokesman.
Rice's August 1 decision, announced by Casey in a statement released August 3, ensures that Colombia will receive the final 12.5 percent of withheld U.S. foreign-aid funding that was obligated during Fiscal Year (FY) 2004, as well as the first 12.5 percent of withheld FY 2005 funds. "The last 12.5 percent of withheld FY 2005 funds cannot be obligated until the Secretary makes another certification and determination" at a later date, Casey explained.
"Promoting respect for human rights is central to our policy in Colombia," Casey said. He added that Colombia's "President [Alvaro] Uribe and other senior Colombian officials have assured us they are committed to working with us on concrete measures" to further improve Colombia's protection of human rights.
Following is the text of Casey's statement:
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of the Spokesman
August 3, 2005
STATEMENT BY TOM CASEY, ACTING SPOKESMAN
Colombia: Determination and Certification of Colombian Government and Armed Forces with Respect to Human Rights-Related Conditions
On August 1, 2005, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice determined that there is sufficient progress to certify to Congress that the Colombian Government and Armed Forces are meeting statutory criteria related to human rights and severing ties to paramilitary groups.
Promoting respect for human rights is central to our policy in Colombia. While there has been progress, we also recognize that more needs to be done to improve the human rights situation, sever military-paramilitary ties, and end impunity in Colombia. Under Secretary R. Nicholas Burns met with President Uribe and key members of his cabinet and staff during a July 26-27 visit to Bogotá. In those meetings, the Government of Colombia agreed to expedite resolution of the most critical cases of human-rights abuses and further demonstrated its commitment through new appointments to its senior leadership.
We expect continued high-level attention to resolving human-rights concerns from the government of Colombia. President Uribe and other senior Colombian officials have assured us they are committed to working with us on concrete measures the Government of Colombia should take to achieve these important objectives.
This August's determination and certification by Secretary Rice, which is effected pursuant to Sections 563 (a) (3) and 556(a) (2) of the FY 2004 and FY 2005 Foreign Operations Appropriations Act (FOAA), permits the final 12.5 percent of withheld FY 2004 funds, and the first 12.5 percent of withheld FY 2005 funds, to be obligated. The last 12.5 percent of withheld FY 2005 funds cannot be obligated until the Secretary makes another certification and determination. Under Section 563(a)(1) of the FY 2004 FOAA and Section 556(a) (1) of the FY 2005 FOAA, 75 percent of assistance to the Colombian Armed Forces has already been obligated without conditions, and the first 12.5 percent of withheld FY 2004 funds were obligated following the Secretary's certification for Colombia in September 2004.
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Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
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