Lara Logan sexually assaulted...

[Defend]

The men who assaulted her (regardless of the extent of that assault) are scumbags, and my sympathy goes out to her.

That being said, no western mother, sister, daughter, or female friend of mine would have been in that crowd on that night. Egypt is known for sexual assault. My first visit over there a group of guys managed to cut a female friend of mine out of our group getting off the subway. One of them ended up with a bruise on the base of his skull from my elbow and all three of them ended up on their backs on the platform thanks to another friend present. Some western women who live in Cairo have taken to carrying hatpins, which effectively keep the dogs at bay.

Now, as far as how we can expect this to be viewed by the Egyptian religious leadership, this speech by the Egyptian born Mufti of Australia Sheik Taj el-Din al-Hilali says it all.

---
Excerpts of al-Hilali's speech
This is the edited transcript of Sheik Taj el-Din al-Hilali's controversial speech. It was translated from Arabic by Dalia Mattar, from Australian broadcaster SBS, and originally printed by The Australian newspaper.

Those atheists, people of the book [Christians and Jews], where will they end up? In Surfers Paradise? On the Gold Coast?

Where will they end up? In hell. And not part-time. For eternity. They are the worst in God's creation.

Who commits the crimes of theft? The man or the woman? The man.

'Women's responsibility'

That's why the man was mentioned before the woman when it comes to theft because his responsibility is providing.

But when it comes to adultery, it's 90% the women's responsibility. Why? Because a woman possesses the weapon of seduction.

It is she who takes off her clothes, shortens them, flirts, puts on make-up and powder and takes to the streets, God protect us, dallying. It's she who shortens, raises and lowers.

Then it's a look, then a smile, then a conversation, a greeting, then a conversation, then a date, then a meeting, then a crime, then Long Bay jail. [laughs].

Then you get a judge, who has no mercy, and he gives you 65 years.

But when it comes to this disaster, who started it? In his literature, scholar al-Rafihi says: 'If I came across a rape crime - kidnap and violation of honour - I would discipline the man and order that the woman be arrested and jailed for life.'

'Uncovered meat'

Why would you do this, Rafihi? He says because if she had not left the meat uncovered, the cat wouldn't have snatched it.

If you take a kilo of meat, and you don't put it in the fridge or in the pot or in the kitchen but you leave it on a plate in the backyard, and then you have a fight with the neighbour because his cats eat the meat, you're crazy. Isn't this true?

If you take uncovered meat and put it on the street, on the pavement, in a garden, in a park or in the backyard, without a cover and the cats eat it, is it the fault of the cat or the uncovered meat? The uncovered meat is the problem.

If the meat was covered, the cats wouldn't roam around it. If the meat is inside the fridge, they won't get it.

If the meat was in the fridge and it [the cat] smelled it, it can bang its head as much as it wants, but it's no use.

'Satan's weapons'

If the woman is in her boudoir, in her house and if she's wearing the veil and if she shows modesty, disasters don't happen.

That's why he said she owns the weapon of seduction.

Satan sees women as half his soldiers: "You're my messenger to achieve my needs."

Satan tells women: "You're my weapon to bring down any stubborn man. There are men that I fail with. But you're the best of my weapons."

The woman was behind Satan playing a role when she disobeyed God and went out all dolled up and unveiled and made of herself palatable food that rakes and perverts would race for. She was the reason behind this sin taking place.

This transcript is courtesy of The Australian newspaper
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/h...ic/6089008.stm

Published: 2006/10/27 08:15:11 GMT

© BBC 2011
---

For more background click here.

-out

[Richard]

Now, as far as how we can expect this to be viewed by the Egyptian religious leadership, this speech by the Egyptian born Mufti of Australia Sheik Taj el-Din al-Hilali says it all.

I wonder how one would embroider a scarlet letter 'A' in Arabic.

Richard

[98G]

IMHO putting oneself in harm's way whether in the military or other professions should not be condemned. Perhaps I scanned the posts too quickly, but I have missed any comment that says the the reporter herself is not whining about the attack. She knew the risks and seems to have considered the risks acceptable. That being the case, I admire her and wish her a speedy recovery.

As for her personal life, gossip about an attractive woman surrounded by men isn't new. In the Enquirer, it is page 1, 2, 3, 4 etc. Big foot is also occasionally sighted.

But there is a point in regard to the press in hot zones. Looking for missing reporters in Afghanistan (not Egypt, I know) tends to lose soldiers.

So while I concur with AFCHIC, I understand the frustration.

Originally Posted by Richard

I wonder how one would embroider a scarlet letter 'A' in Arabic.

Richard

Oddly enough the lower case, of the first letter, in her first and last name.

[DJ Urbanovsky]

Hmmm... That's interesting. I don't seem to recall broaching the savages angle in this thread. Perhaps you can point out where I've done that, other than in reference to the rapists, whom I suggested should suffer one of the most cruel and unusual punishments mankind has devised? Furthermore, I never said she asked for it. I said she made a stupid decision. There's an important distinction there. I believe I've been very clear about that.

Insofar as my taking the side of a skilled artisan... This may come as a surprise to you, but there are plenty of people in my industry, both skilled and not, who are just as screwed up as anybody else. Somebody being good at what they do has zero impact upon whether or not they're fucked up like a soup sandwich. And just because somebody is a skilled artisan doesn't necessarily make them my bro. I'm a little more discerning than that about who I associate with. I don't know what you do for a living, but if someone in your industry did something stupid, would you automatically come running to their defense?

Seems to me the only fact I didn't check regarding this situation is that Logan was an American. Damn. You got me on that one.

Furthermore, I can assure you, dr. mabuse would not lose that bet. And what's violence got to do with this discussion? That statement is about manning up and dealing with things like an adult, not violence. Maybe the fact that you extrapolated violence from that statement says something about you?

Originally Posted by Sigaba

DJ--

BLUF, I take umbrage with the "she asked for it"/"savages will be savages" theme of your posts in this thread.

As for the hair splitting and 'superior tone', I say turn things around. Let's say there was a news story about a highly skilled artisan suffering some misfortune while plying his craft. Would you be pleased if people jumped to conclusions without checking their facts and said "Look at that [so and so]--he was stupid." Or would it be better if people understood that professionals take risks to make a living? That's not what she says <<LINK>>

You would lose that bet.

Moreover, your remark clearly indicates that you think members of this BB do not have the maturity to discuss opposing points of view without losing their tempers and turning to violence.

That's me trying my best to be diplomatic. Maybe I didn't do such a good job there...

Hairbrush? You lucked out... My mom used a wooden spoon.

Originally Posted by ZonieDiver

Wow! The last time I heard that phrase, it was followed by a few licks with a hairbrush, administered by my mom!

[uplink5]

Originally Posted by AngelsSix

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/interna...vKzu3a1xlv6ECP

I don't know how many of you know or remember this. I have absolutely no respect for her, nor will she get my sympathy. She is neither intelligent nor professional in my book.

Know or Remember this? You're kidding right?
I suspect most here never heard of it, or give two $hits about what the NY Post or any rag prints regarding a private citizens personal life. Most here have their own lives to concern themselves with.

NEWS FLASH!!!....

There are two, three, and perhaps more sides to every story. Don't sell yourself on the first one that comes along.

Or better yet, try not to rationalize an event like this as OK, because you "have no sympathy" based on some rag's interpretation of a soap oprah. She probably doesn't want YOUR sympathy. I'd ask you to read Defend's post #48 and see if you're statement is more in line with al-Hilali's speech when he says ...

"if I came across a rape crime - kidnap and violation of honour - I would discipline the man and order that the woman be arrested and jailed for life.'

Thank GOD that most in OUR society dont think like this. Is this your position?

This young lady did a dumb thing and maybe she's done many dumb things in her life. Regardless, she wouldn't be the first ignorant victim to have thought, "it couldn't happen to me". She's lucky to be alive and she should be supported as the victim she is. Hopefully, others will learn from her ignorance.

There is a legal term for your position, it's called System Victim Focus. Basically, it's when defenants and thier lawyers try to rationalize any reason to blame the victim. It's very common in rape cases.

Why would you do this?

Incredible.....jd

[The antihero]

Originally Posted by T-Rock

Religiously motivated? Why would anyone want to lunge at anything labeled Jew



Source: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/interna...IDdCrbD95ybD5N

What if she was perceived to have been Muslim?


ETA
An Egyptian attorney encourages the rape of Jewish Women:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAbYodZ7Fp4

From the NYP article:


And the day before, Logan had told Esquire.com that Egyptian soldiers hassling her and her crew had accused them of "being Israeli spies."

The horrific incident came a week after the 39-year-old reporter was temporarily detained by Egyptian police amid tensions over foreign coverage of the country's growing revolution.

As part of the anti-media backlash, CNN's Anderson Cooper had also been roughed up, and ABC correspondent Brian Hartman had been threatened with beheading.

"[Logan] was not in the country for long -- she'd been thrown out, if you remember -- and had just gone back in," one source said.


It kinda makes you wonder though. Was this a casual assault or the mob was somehow steered?

[T-Rock]

It kinda makes you wonder though. Was this a casual assault or the mob was somehow steered?

I'm of the opinion the crowd was steered...

Considering Mrs Logan is not Jewish, only reinforces the deep seeded Jew-hatred among Muslim Egyptians. Such virulent Muslim Jew-hatred is inspired by the core of Islam’s foundational texts, and demonstrates how little it takes for this hatred to show its face.

"We were all blindfolded," Logan shuffles a bag into an overhead bin, shuts it. "They blindfolded me, but they said if I didn't take it off they wouldn't tie my hands. They kept us in stress positions — they wouldn't let me put my head down. It was all through the night. We were pretty exhausted." And then what? They let Logan go. She's an American journalist, not an enemy of the state.

"We were accused of being Israeli spies. We were accused of being agents. We were accused of everything."

Source: http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politic...-egypt-5219471

[akv]

Ms. Logan's story and that of Raymond Davis are concurrent headlines with similarities. Both were folks who were either sent or put themselves in hostile environments in which they greatly stood out. We don't know who or what Mr. Davis is, or the background of his assailants. We do know net net Mr. Davis had the SA and the skill to survive a deadly confrontation. While I have empathy for Ms. Logan, the ramifications of the Davis incident have significantly greater potential for damage to US interests. There are differences, Davis may have been carrying out a mission, and as a culture we tend to be more protective of women than men, yet the range of responses on his thread in contrast are generally of support, and a few questions about his professionalism. There are no stipulations the host culture are savages in relation to Western ones, and folks seem to be withholding judgement of his actions until we know more.

Respectfully, as far as relative savages go, a riot, a mob, and a revolution are all savage dangerous environments whether in Rwanda, Paris, or Beverly Hills. I abhor the treatment of women in the Third World, but to be fair if we are assigning relative savagery on the basis of bloodshed, Americans killed, or barbarous acts, objectively the aforementioned German Caucasians are off to a considerable head start the past century.

Jewish folks, Poles and Eastern Europeans, not to mention the families of US GI's murdered at Malmedy among numerous others, could hardly be blamed for putting the Germans front and center on the savages list. Yet Germany has been an ally of ours, and a peaceful democracy for over a half century, and I would think few rational Americans think of the Germans this way now.

I think everyone wishes the best for both Ms. Logan and Mr. Davis, yet clearly the use of the term "savages" tend to bring out emotion in people. History would seem to indicate savage acts are simply savage acts even when committed by folks who share a similar culture, religion, or phenotypes.

[hoepoe]

Two things:
1) She obviously made judgment error in being there
2) Damn sad that assault like his should happen to anyone, regardless of circumstance.

She is lucky to be alive but i'm pretty certain she will never be the same person she was.

Speedy recovery

H

[Pete]

Bahrain Protests: At Least 2 Dead in Crackdown; ABC's Miguel Marquez Roughed Up

A good wrap up of some of what happened to "our" reporters.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=12936124

The marquez clip link is below the main story - gotta' watch the short commercials.

A riot is a riot - all bets are off on what it, groups or individuals will do.

[tonyz]

Originally Posted by DJ Urbanovsky

Hairbrush? You lucked out... My mom used a wooden spoon.

DJ, my mom used a wooden spoon, too !

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by tonyz

DJ, my mom used a wooden spoon, too !

Mine took away my tommyhawk for 3 days.

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

Easier still when you're getting your information from news reports from The National Enquirer.

You need to dial it back or you'll be on vacation from this board. One warning only.

Originally Posted by T-Rock

I'm of the opinion the crowd was steered...

Considering Mrs Logan is not Jewish, only reinforces the deep seeded Jew-hatred among Muslim Egyptians. Such virulent Muslim Jew-hatred is inspired by the core of Islam’s foundational texts, and demonstrates how little it takes for this hatred to show its face.



Source: http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politic...-egypt-5219471

It is ALL Egpytians, it is not just Muslim Egpytians.

We also seem to forget they were protesting together, therefore actions like this probably were committed by both sides. After all the Egyptian Muslim's were acting as "human shields" for the Coptic Egyptians so why are we assuming this was a Muslim led action?

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/egy...tmas-services/

Quote from the link to summarize it...

“We either live together, or we die together,” was the sloganeering genius of Mohamed El-Sawy, a Muslim arts tycoon whose cultural centre distributed flyers at churches in Cairo Thursday night, and who has been credited with first floating the “human shield” idea.