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Old 07-02-2009, 19:20   #31
plato
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdiver View Post
Holly,

Don't be afraid to get your CC.
Amen. A CC Permit is just that, a permit. It doesn't mean you *must* carry.

Kid sis has the same qualms about carrying a weapon. I've convinced her to get her permit to carry anyway. That way, she can acquire a handgun in minutes, either by buying one or borrowing one, rather than waiting three months after the need for a permit.

Michigan requires certified range time as part of the application. Of course, knowing her as I do, I am *certain* that, once she puts 100 rounds thru one of mine she would never want to be without one.

Note to self...........go ahead and buy a "spare"
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Old 07-14-2009, 17:40   #32
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Gov. Jan Brewer signed the bill, it's a done deal.

Brewer OKs Concealed
Guns in Restaurants
Updated: Tuesday, 14 Jul 2009, 6:15 AM MDT
Published : Monday, 13 Jul 2009, 10:32 PM MDT

PHOENIX - Arizonans with concealed weapons permits will be allowed to take a handgun into bars and restaurants that serve alcohol under a bill signed Monday by Gov. Jan Brewer.

The measure, backed by the National Rifle Association, will require bar and restaurant owners who want to ban weapons on the premises to post a no-guns sign next to their liquor license. It becomes effective Sept. 30.

Drinking while carrying a weapon would be illegal.

Before a compromise was reached late in the Legislature's regular session, the measure pitted powerful groups representing gun and bar owners against each other.

Supporters said people should be able to protect themselves at businesses that serve alcohol and shouldn't have to endure the risk of leaving their gun in a parked vehicle.

Todd Rathner, an NRA lobbyist, said he was pleased Brewer signed it after former Gov. Janet Napolitano vetoed a similar bill in 2005. Brewer, a Republican, became governor when Napolitano, a Democrat, resigned in January to become U.S. Homeland Security secretary.

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"Any law that allows law-abiding citizens to carry a firearm in more places makes the community safer," Rathner said.

Opponents have said mixing guns and alcohol produces a dangerous combination that could cause violence.

"Now there's going to be a fear that you don't know if the person next to you is carrying a concealed weapon or not," said Sen. Ken Cheuvront, a Phoenix Democrat who owns a wine bar and restaurant downtown.

More than 127,000 Arizonans have concealed weapons permits and would be allowed to carry a gun into consenting bars and restaurants. Brewer's signature makes Arizona the 41st state to allow guns in businesses that serve alcohol, according to the NRA.

The bill originally applied only to establishments with kitchens, but it was expanded to include bars. Another change was to move the location for posting a no-guns notice, which originally was to have been next to the main entrance. Some bar owners had worried about uncertainty over which entrance would be considered the main entrance.

A lobbyist for the Arizona Licensed Beverage Association, which opposed the original bill, said the amended version created clear, uniform and enforceable rules.

"It's going to happen one way or another, and this was the best version we've seen," ALBA lobbyist Don Isaacson said after the bill was revised last month.

It's already legal to carry a gun into a store that sells alcohol for consumption elsewhere.

It would be a misdemeanor punishable by up to 30 days in jail and a fine of up to $500 to carry a gun into an establishment with a no-guns notice posted.

The law, however, includes a partial legal defense for a person carrying a concealed weapon within an establishment banning guns. It would apply if the sign had fallen down, the person wasn't an
Arizona resident or the notice was first posted less than a month earlier.

Brewer also signed a bill allowing gun-owners to display a firearm if they feel threatened and another allowing them to keep firearms in their locked vehicles while parked at businesses that ban weapons.

The measure allows businesses to ban guns if they provide a secured parking lot or if they provide a nearby secondary lot that allows them.






http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news...sed_07_13_2009
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Old 07-14-2009, 18:06   #33
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Im one of the very rare CCW holders from California (and Ive been fighting for more LIBERAL CCW issuance in the state for well over a decade now... ).

This is from my permit:

Quote:

While exercising the privileges granted to the licensee under the terms of this license, the licensee
shall not, when carrying a concealed weapon:
• Consume any alcoholic beverage.
• Be in a place having a primary purpose of dispensing alcoholic beverages for on-site
consumption.
• Be under the influence of any medication or drug, whether prescribed or not.
So we are allowed to carry in places like a "TGI Fridays" that have a bar, but is predominately a restaurant. Getting caught carrying with ANY alcohol on board is grounds for instant revocation.

Last edited by Praetorian; 07-14-2009 at 18:12.
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Old 07-14-2009, 18:36   #34
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Originally Posted by Praetorian View Post
Im one of the very rare CCW holders from California
Holy shit they really do exist..... Up until this point I treated Cali CCW holders lik the lost City of Atlantis. Every has heard of it but no I know has ever 'seen' it (or one).
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Old 07-14-2009, 19:05   #35
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Originally Posted by Smokin Joe View Post
Holy shit they really do exist..... Up until this point I treated Cali CCW holders lik the lost City of Atlantis. Every has heard of it but no I know has ever 'seen' it (or one).
I know.... Im rarer than Sasquatch and twice as mythical.

I went on a ride-along last year and when the issue of guns came up I told the officer I had a CCW. He actually said "there is no such thing in California."

"No...really!!! There is!!! Here is mine!!!!"

Here is the new "Credit Card" type permit. We just got issued these about three months ago or so.... Before that we had the famous "rice paper permit" (literally just a super thin piece of paper that had the info typed on it.... Anybody with a roll of toilet paper and a vintage typewriter could have forged one).
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Last edited by Praetorian; 07-14-2009 at 19:09.
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Old 07-15-2009, 10:47   #36
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Originally Posted by echoes View Post
This bill passing is of great interest to myself and a few gals I know. Honestly, having armed "good guys" in the establishments that are frequented, is a GOOD thing, IMVHO!

Am curious....(And hope am not flamed for asking,) but, IF a QP now is legally carrying and violence breaks out, what would be the objective if put in that position?

Thank you TS, for the update!

Holly
Prior to becoming an Army JAG I served as a an Army CID agent (Seq # 1586) and they sent me to DEA school. During our undercover techniques this issue was extensively covered. In the situation where you are armed and unrelated to your presence violence errupts (Particularly when you are in "relaxed grooming" standards) the Boys in Blue that respond are pretty well full of adrenaline and expecting violence. The odds are you will become a casualty of Blue on Blue fire if you got a gun in your hand. This caution was expanded upon if you were wearing anything resembling biker gear and special empansis was placed upon agents that were members of minority groups. We were taught that it is a fact of life if you are a black male in street gear when the alarm goes off don't be waiving no gun in the 7-11 whether you are a federal agent or not - odds are you will be perceived as hostile by the responding officers.

The prevailing DEA guidance then was sit back, be a good witness taking in all the details for the arriving officers and be prepared to hit the deck face down with your badge face up in hand when the responding units make entry and order everybody down.

The guidance continued that if the shooter was "postal", a disgruntled ex or on crack/PCP - you just as well take him down and risk the friendly fire because if you didn't you were a goner anyway.

------

The thing I learned watching Florida's CCW laws become more enlightened, make sure the state law where you carry is clear, can you use deadly force in protection of yourself, your family, or others

v/r
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Old 07-15-2009, 11:14   #37
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Originally Posted by JAGO View Post
Prior to becoming an Army JAG I served as a an Army CID agent (Seq # 1586) and they sent me to DEA school. During our undercover techniques this issue was extensively covered. In the situation where you are armed and unrelated to your presence violence errupts (Particularly when you are in "relaxed grooming" standards) the Boys in Blue that respond are pretty well full of adrenaline and expecting violence. The odds are you will become a casualty of Blue on Blue fire if you got a gun in your hand. This caution was expanded upon if you were wearing anything resembling biker gear and special empansis was placed upon agents that were members of minority groups. We were taught that it is a fact of life if you are a black male in street gear when the alarm goes off don't be waiving no gun in the 7-11 whether you are a federal agent or not - odds are you will be perceived as hostile by the responding officers.

The prevailing DEA guidance then was sit back, be a good witness taking in all the details for the arriving officers and be prepared to hit the deck face down with your badge face up in hand when the responding units make entry and order everybody down.

The guidance continued that if the shooter was "postal", a disgruntled ex or on crack/PCP - you just as well take him down and risk the friendly fire because if you didn't you were a goner anyway.

------

The thing I learned watching Florida's CCW laws become more enlightened, make sure the state law where you carry is clear, can you use deadly force in protection of yourself, your family, or others

v/r
phil
X10...

Plus, there is a basic tactical issue. I cant remember the FBI statistic off the top of my head right now, but a significant percentage of "takeover" style robberies involve an "advance man" accomplice who enters the establishment prior to the robbery, and hangs out quietly disguised as a patron while it goes down. His sole job is to make sure the main assailant doesn't encounter resistance.

In that scenario, the would-be Good Samaritan who exposes his firearm to intervene in the robbery will likely never have a chance to use it because he will be shot by the back up.

A few years ago as part of my on-going CCW training I did a LE "use of force" training program where I was put through this very scenario and failed it BIG TIME. I wont forget that lesson, EVER.


Priority #1 Hard Cover.
Priority #2 Escape.
Pulling (and shooting) the gun only comes up as a last resort when 1 and 2 are not options and the bad guy is turning his attention toward me or my loved ones.

Last edited by Praetorian; 07-15-2009 at 11:16.
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Old 07-15-2009, 12:53   #38
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Quote:
QUOTE - SDiver

Holly,

Also look at it this way.....If some dirt bag(s) do happen upon you and your sis in anyway, they're already thinking you're nothing but sheep, so you're an "easy" target.

But low and behold if (when) you pull your piece and happen to drop one of them, or even get off a snap shot, chances are, the others will be running for their lives as fast as they can screaming, "Holy Crap !!!!! That ain't no Sheep....that's a Sheepdog....and SHE'S GOT TEETH !!!!"

Don't be afraid to get your CC.

I'm pretty sure it was a lass with a CC that dropped that dirtbag at that church a while back...yes?

When more woman have teeth that 10% of our gene pool who should be taken outside and lost will think twice before perpetrating a crime against those 'weaker' then themselves.

And now for a little story…
I was dating this Dr a while back and she asked me to go into her purse for something, I saw here ‘little’ stashed in there S&W, and just thought 'hell yeah'!

I didn't have a CC for the US so couldn't carry. Kinda felt weird that if we got in a situation I could yell "Quick honey - Draw"

Any reason they don't add an amendment to the AZ Bill stating that anything more then a zero or very low alcohol blood level is cause for revocation? i.e. you can carry into any place that serves alcohol you just can't partake? Other States have done this haven’t they? Are there any particulars on Alcohol Blood limit in the AZ bill?

S
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Last edited by Scimitar; 07-15-2009 at 13:07.
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Old 07-15-2009, 13:35   #39
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Originally Posted by Scimitar View Post
Are there any particulars on Alcohol Blood limit in the AZ bill?

S
The math is easy.

((any drink+any gun+firing gun )/damn good reason)*lawyers= Y

Y= all of your money and perhaps your freedom for a few years
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Old 07-15-2009, 13:41   #40
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Can't find anything on PA residents with permits being allowed to carry in bars but also can't find anything in writing that says they can't.
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Old 07-15-2009, 14:37   #41
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Originally Posted by Sten View Post
The math is easy.

((any drink+any gun+firing gun )/damn good reason)*lawyers= Y

Y= all of your money and perhaps your freedom for a few years
Sten "Your logic is sound"*.

*Spock



S
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