I'm done with California... how's Utah?

[PRB]

No fan of Dem Cali but the article is rather one sided and is meant to support his other books on the coming total collapse of everything.
With it's political base I wouldn't want to live there even if things were all rosy.

[aegisnavy]

Utah has been doing well. I grew up in Oregon, and though I miss it every day, I don't think I would ever go back to live/work for various reasons.

[head]

Originally Posted by aegisnavy

Utah has been doing well. I grew up in Oregon, and though I miss it every day, I don't think I would ever go back to live/work for various reasons.

What parts of Utah have worked out for you?

[head]

Originally Posted by zeke

head,
I don't know what you would do or want to do for work, but Idaho is a great place to live in my opinion. I grew up there and plan on retiring there or central Oregon. It has lots of wildlife, forests, deserts, and the people are nice and don't bother you if you don't bother them.

I'm partial to more central Idaho like Idaho City, Chalis, McCall, but I hear northern Idaho is great too. Central Oregon is good and I don't hear many people complain about living in Montana.

Utah is a strange beast. The mountains of the Uintas and Wasatch are well worth exploring and the southern Utah deserts can't be beat. There is a strange atmosphere of the Mormon flavor to the government and laws in my opinion, having lived in SLC for 5 years. I still like to go back and visit to see Moab, Goblin Valley, Zion, Needles, and others. If you were looking at Portland, Oregon I may be able to help in the employment department with a referral. The company I work for likes to hire veterans. I work with dudes from the Army, Marines, Air Force, and Navy.

HTH

Thanks for the input, Zeke. The not pumping your own gas thing weirds me out about Oregon, but I might consider there too.

[aegisnavy]

Originally Posted by head

What parts of Utah have worked out for you?

Salt Lake is good, best job opportunities. The entire Wasatch Front economy is doing well. Heck, the 19th is close by. How could you go wrong?

[Richard]

FWIW and to add balance to the perception of living here on the "Left Coast" - I moved back to NorCal from Dallas in November of last year after not having lived out here since 1970.

In Dallas, we had no state income tax, but our property/school taxes were more than $6000 annually, we had a $1300/month house payment, and our combined monthly electricity, water, sewage, and car/property insurance was $700.

Here on the ranch, we pay a 10% state income tax, property taxes (grandfathered in a trust under Prop13) are $1400; we have no house, water (well), or sewage (septic tank system) payments; electricity is under a community coop (SMUD) and averaging $72/mo; and car/property insurance is $115.

The weather is much better as is the view as I look out my front windows at the Sierras, it's 90 miles to Lake Tahoe and the same to the Pacific Coast, we're smack dab in the middle of agriculture and wine country, and we pay a little more for some things and less for others. The fruits and vegetables around here are local, and not from Chile or Mexico or such, and their freshness and much more flavorful taste are noticable.

Gas would be a bit higher than we were paying in Texas, but we earn discount rewards at our primary grocery store and usually earn $0.20-$0.40/gal discount at their pumps or up to $0.20/gal discount at Chevron or Shell stations, so it pretty much costs the same as we were paying there and the traffic around the valley here is far better than around the DFW area.

I go outside with my dog and let her chase Jack Rabbits while I work on the property and enjoy the tranquility of the place, the weather, and watching the hawks hunt my fields during the day and the large Barn Owl from the olive orchard at night.

Closest Mom/Pop (literally) store/gas pump is 1/2 mile, chain gas station 2 1/2 mile, pharmacy 2 miles, chain grocery stores/fast food 3 miles, fire station 1 1/2 mile, airport 15 miles, etc.

My wife's job can still be done from here, and her annual flying hours have been cut in half by living here as most of her business is in Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Sacramento, Los Angeles, and San Diego.

We spent a 75 degree Sunday afternoon last weekend enjoying a picnic and a bottle of Estate Reserve Syrah you can't buy in stores over along the river near Clarksburg 18 miles away at Bogle Winery with a friend visiting from Indianapolis.

We're planning on putting in around a half-acre of grapes this summer - mostly for the visual effect, but also to grow some grapes to trade with a vintner for a few cases of wine with our ranch label to give to friends and relatives for holiday gifts.

A year ago I would have said we were never leaving Texas for NorCal, but the opportunity presented itself, we looked at the balance sheet (money and quality of life), and we're now settled in here on the ranch for the duration - and California, like all states, needs residents to remain who are earnestly and gainfully committed to its future and theirs.

Richard

[ddoering]

I've always enjoyed the left coast. The only thing that deters from it are the people.

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by Richard

FWIW and to add balance to the perception of living here on the "Left Coast" - I moved back to NorCal from Dallas in November of last year after not having lived out here since 1970.

In Dallas, we had no state income tax, but our property/school taxes were more than $6000 annually, we had a $1300/month house payment, and our combined monthly electricity, water, sewage, and car/property insurance was $700.

Here on the ranch, we pay a 10% state income tax, property taxes (grandfathered in a trust under Prop13) are $1400; we have no house, water (well), or sewage (septic tank system) payments; electricity is under a community coop (SMUD) and averaging $72/mo; and car/property insurance is $115.

The weather is much better as is the view as I look out my front windows at the Sierras, it's 90 miles to Lake Tahoe and the same to the Pacific Coast, we're smack dab in the middle of agriculture and wine country, and we pay a little more for some things and less for others. The fruits and vegetables around here are local, and not from Chile or Mexico or such, and their freshness and much more flavorful taste are noticable.

Gas would be a bit higher than we were paying in Texas, but we earn discount rewards at our primary grocery store and usually earn $0.20-$0.40/gal discount at their pumps or up to $0.20/gal discount at Chevron or Shell stations, so it pretty much costs the same as we were paying there and the traffic around the valley here is far better than around the DFW area.

I go outside with my dog and let her chase Jack Rabbits while I work on the property and enjoy the tranquility of the place, the weather, and watching the hawks hunt my fields during the day and the large Barn Owl from the olive orchard at night.

Closest Mom/Pop (literally) store/gas pump is 1/2 mile, chain gas station 2 1/2 mile, pharmacy 2 miles, chain grocery stores/fast food 3 miles, fire station 1 1/2 mile, airport 15 miles, etc.

My wife's job can still be done from here, and her annual flying hours have been cut in half by living here as most of her business is in Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Sacramento, Los Angeles, and San Diego.

We spent a 75 degree Sunday afternoon last weekend enjoying a picnic and a bottle of Estate Reserve Syrah you can't buy in stores over along the river near Clarksburg 18 miles away at Bogle Winery with a friend visiting from Indianapolis.

We're planning on putting in around a half-acre of grapes this summer - mostly for the visual effect, but also to grow some grapes to trade with a vintner for a few cases of wine with our ranch label to give to friends and relatives for holiday gifts.

A year ago I would have said we were never leaving Texas for NorCal, but the opportunity presented itself, we looked at the balance sheet (money and quality of life), and we're now settled in here on the ranch for the duration - and California, like all states, needs residents to remain who are earnestly and gainfully committed to its future and theirs.

Richard

You just like it here because you're a LIB!

[Roguish Lawyer]

Seriously though, Richard, the agricultural parts of CA are pretty conservative. You're not exactly living in commieland like I am.

[PSM]

Originally Posted by Richard

Here on the ranch, we pay a 10% state income tax, property taxes (grandfathered in a trust under Prop13) are $1400;

You have to admit, Richard, that yours is an unusual situation.

My sister in Aledo, TX, is quick to point out that they do not pay an income tax. But, their property tax is at least twice what ours was in CA. But, like you, we were protected by Prop. 13 for the 26 years that we owned the house. For the first couple of years we paid $2200 a year. We refinanced to a 15 year loan and were re-assessed. So we ended up paying $3000 a year. Without Prop. 13 we would have been paying $9000 to $10,000 a year and, after the real estate market crash, we would still have had to pay +/- $7000. And that is what the person who bought our house will now have to pay.

What would you be paying without Prop. 13?

Pat

[x SF med]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

And there is the problem. Many rural parts of California is very conservative, however large part of the votes come from LA and SF area and influences the whole state. They have redrawn the voting lines so that it is almost imposable for a non liberal to get into office not to mention years of passing ultra liberal laws. Some of the most beautiful place's on earth are in California, but the realignment of the prisons and welfare programs have really brought the quality of life there. I moved out a few years ago and miss it the way it used to be, not the way it is now.

Brush...

PDX, Salem and Bob (my name for Eugene) influence the vote for the majority of Oregon... just like the OLY-TAC-SEA corridor does to WA...

Population density and mental density seem to have a proportional relationship.

[booker]

Most states (excluding UT) that have large urban areas function in this way. Look at Northern VA vs. the rest of VA. The last electoral map illustrates it best. The only blue counties were in the urban areas. IL is another good example. TX may follow that trend, especially if the immigration reform goes through.

[ddoering]

True that urban areas exert a large amount of control but if the farmers/rural areas decided not to ship food for a month the urban areas would collapse. French farmers used to do that all the time to heel in their runaway gov/urban compatriots.

[Team Sergeant]

Twenty year veterans that fought and bled for this country get what 36K a year in retirement? But a Califorina lifeguard that retires at 51 gets 108K....... Enjoy your socialist Kalif Gov, enjoy the bankruptcy that will soon follow......

California on the Brink: Pension Crisis About to Get Worse
By Elizabeth MacDonald
Published June 12, 2013
FOXBusiness

A growing number of key California cities are a lot worse off than previously thought, thanks to new changes coming in the way state and local governments must account for their pension costs.

The pension changes from Moody’s, and separately the Governmental Accounting Standards Board, scheduled for this month, could result in Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Jose, Azusa and Inglewood joining fiscally troubled Stockton and San Bernardino, among others, as severe credit risks. It's all largely due to soaring employee retirement costs, according to new analysis based on the methodology by Bob Williams and his team at State Budget Solution (SBS), a non-partisan organization that studies state budget crises.

The new rules could nearly double California’s unfunded liabilities to $328.6 billion. Moreover, California cities that have already filed for bankruptcy protection, like Stockton and Vallejo, will fall deeper into the red.

Officials in these California cities did not return calls for comment.

(snip)
One retiree in the County of Solano pulls in nearly $371,000 a year in retiree pay. Nearly 12,200 government retirees get $100,000 a year, including 94 city retirees in Stockton.

A retired librarian in San Diego somehow gets a $234,000 annual pension. A Newport Beach lifeguard got to retire at age 51 with a $108,000 annual pension plus health-care benefits.


cont:

http://www.foxbusiness.com/governmen...est=latestnews

[aegisnavy]

Originally Posted by booker

Most states (excluding UT) that have large urban areas function in this way. Look at Northern VA vs. the rest of VA. The last electoral map illustrates it best. The only blue counties were in the urban areas. IL is another good example. TX may follow that trend, especially if the immigration reform goes through.

Salt Lake City is lib central, but so far, their influence is limited. Thankfully.

TS, apparently I chose the wrong profession. I could have retired in 6 years making more than I currently do. Maybe I need to convert to the left coast.