LeMas Test Fire

[The Reaper]

Any questions or additional comments?

TR

[APD281]

Reaper,

I have done accuracy testing and barrier testing with Le Mas ammo and it is an ongoing(probably never ending) project. I have a 9 page document that I have put together with the test results as well as a proposal for my department to adopt this ammo for special purposes. SWAT team members are exempt from the firearms and ammunition policy of the Department. FWIW The Police Department I work for uses the following conventional ammunition for patrol use: 9mm Federal 115 grain +p+, .40 Winchester 155 grain Silvertips, Federal .223 TRU 55 grain JSP, Federal .223 55 grain Tactical(bonded), and 00 buckshot for our shotguns. We have been satisfied with the performance of this ammunition in live tissue(dogs, deer, people, and other critters.) but you can't have too much performance. 5 years ago I shot a fella with the 9mm load and it shut him down instantly. Another buddy of mine shot a guy a year later with similar results. We are satisifed, but like always want for more. And, after reading up on Le Mas and speaking to Stan Bulmer I I decided to test Le Mas ammo. Specifically, .223 Land Warfare, .40 CQB, .45 SUBGUN, .45 CQB, 9mm CQB, and .308 Land Warfare. Le Mas gives us capabilites that have not been available in the past.
I wanted to test the Le Mas in the accuracy department as well as through common barriers that we may have to shoot through. In my tests it really shines! I have shot through glass, 4x4's, drywall, 2x6's, steel, and IIa, and IIIa vests with the handgun rounds. I have also done 25 and 50 yard accuracy testing with the handgun rounds. I have shot through wood, glass, and steel with the rifle ammo(.308 and .223) and done accuracy limited accuracy testing at 100 yards. The handgun ammo stays in the 9 ring of a B-27 at 25 yards. My buddy shot a 1.25" 3 shot group at 100 yards with a F/N SPR last.week(sandbagged) with the .308 LW Le Mas. I shot a 3.5" 3 shot group with the .223 Le Mas LW round, from prone at 100 yards. The .223 was tested from a 16" 1/9 twist Bushmaster upper with a 1.1x4 IOR scope. The handun ammo wiLL defeat IIa vests that stop conventional ammo cold. It also defeats much thicker steel than conventional rounds. In the SWAT entry world soft tissue over penetration is a great concern. last month our team raided a crack house. It was less than 1000 square feet and was flooded with 9 bad guys, 1 infant, and 8 team members. A bullet passing through a suspect in this environment is very possible and a total nightmare in this setting with conventional handgun ammo. Le Mas answers the call in this department like no other! I for one am sold. I sent a copy of all my tests to Stan.(As if he needs it) Let me know if you want a copy. I can possibly post all of them here, but I'll need a little help...I'm not very computer literate. I have it saved in Word.

Sorry this is so long winded.



Thanks for the welcome in the introductions.

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Any questions or additional comments?

TR

I would be interested in a discussion of whether the higher velocity of the LeMas rounds explains (in part or otherwise) the different terminal effects in tissue vs. gelatin.

[APLP]

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

I would be interested in a discussion of whether the higher velocity of the LeMas rounds explains (in part or otherwise) the different terminal effects in tissue vs. gelatin.

RL,
With respect to the Le Mas Ltd. SRAP (Short Range Armor Piercing) handgun and rifle bullet design performance in living tissue, higher linear and rotational projectile velocities result in increased rates of deceleration and greater dimensioned distributions of bullet particulate. To generalize, the higher the velocity when impacting living tissue, the more effective the resulting destruction of living tissue will be. Higher energy living tissue SRAP impacts will also result in less probability for over penetration.

With respect to increased velocity SRAP bullet performance variables when impacting ballistic gelatin, there is no specific data. The 9mm CQB SRAP bullets which dramatically fragment in living tissue do not demonstrate either bullet core expansion or fragmentation when penetrating ballistic gelatin. I would guess that unlike conventional hollow point bullet designs, higher velocities achievable from functional duty weapons would not alter the bullet characteristics of those specific rounds.

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by APLP

RL,
With respect to the Le Mas Ltd. SRAP (Short Range Armor Piercing) handgun and rifle bullet design performance in living tissue, higher linear and rotational projectile velocities result in increased rates of deceleration and greater dimensioned distributions of bullet particulate. To generalize, the higher the velocity when impacting living tissue, the more effective the resulting destruction of living tissue will be. Higher energy living tissue SRAP impacts will also result in less probability for over penetration.

With respect to increased velocity SRAP bullet performance variables when impacting ballistic gelatin, there is no specific data. The 9mm CQB SRAP bullets which dramatically fragment in living tissue do not demonstrate either bullet core expansion or fragmentation when penetrating ballistic gelatin. I would guess that unlike conventional hollow point bullet designs, higher velocities achievable from functional duty weapons would not alter the bullet characteristics of those specific rounds.

Thanks very much, Stan. Seems to me there has to be some characteristic in ballistic gelatin that responds very differently than live tissue at these high velocities. Query whether there is a significant difference in terminal effects of lower velocity rounds in gelatin and live tissue as there is with the high-velocity LeMas rounds -- do we know this already? If not, I think it would be useful for someone (ideally swatsurgeon) to perform the same live tissue analysis on lower velocity rounds to see whether there also is difference between terminal effects observed in gelatin vs. live tissue.

Of course, I am not an expert. I hope no one is bothered by my lay analysis.