Very professional police officer. - Page 2

XngZeRubicon · 08-30-2012, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by RB

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What many who don't carry and fail to realize is that the LAC DID NOTHING WRONG.
2c

Agree. And neither did the cop, IMHO. It can be debated that he did, and I'm used to hearing compelling arguments on both sides of that debate.

monsterhunter · 08-31-2012, 00:39

In order to know if the officer did anything wrong, the state law of the state in the contact would have to be reviewed. I agree with RB that Terry vs. Ohio does not apply here. It is simply a pat down check for weapons during a lawful detention. There is no patdown here but a weapons inspection against the consent of the owner. California is not a stop and I.D. state either but it did provide a requirement to relenquish a weapon for inspection in a public place. I've never conducted a functions check, but just a check to see if it was loaded or not.

I long for days gone by when kids used to walk down the street with their BB guns while heading out into the nearby hills. An older friend of mine had his shotgun in the window rack of his truck at high school so he could hunt quail in the afternoon. Nobody batted an eye. Now people dial 9-1-1 for teens playing airsoft.

I believe we should do everything we can to maintain our deminishing rights. With that being said, I still want my new tactical stuff with a more modern uniform, but with an old school mentality.

RB · 08-31-2012, 02:50

I played BB tag as a young'un....running the alley's, darting between houses. You knew you weren't "it" anymore when the guy you just shot grabbed his ass a yelped 'cause you pumped the bb gun a few more times than you were supposed to and had good aim.

I truly don't have a problem with "surrender of the weapon" if it's state law and the LEO is as professional as the OP, but in NC, VA, and quite a few other states there is no surrender statute or law.

Keep in mind "surrender" can mean several things, yes, even as professional as the LEO was. Some LEO's think it's OK to take the weapon and "run the numbers" to make sure the weapon isn't stolen. [dumbass probably wouldn't be OCing a stolen MP5, eh] This breaks into the gray line of search and seizure. Gotta know, ask, and confirm to have a good understanding of where you stand with the LEO and the convo.

I'd highly suggest a digital voice recorder if you plan on OCing a lot. Keep it handy and when someone gives you the stink eye, flick it on and let them know they're being recorded when they approach. Some states very on "notification" of a recording, based on wiretapping laws.

The video is a bit out there, showed the type semi-preferred convo you'd like to have, but don't always. Bully boy LEO's will let you know that they're the ones assigned to protect you, they know guns better than you, and you're not supposed to carry a weapon without his consent.

Knowing your state law is a good counter to the uninformed. I like opencarry.org as an information source, but any question you could have can be found on a whole menagerie of state "carry" forums.

kgoerz · 08-31-2012, 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destrier

I find people walking around with a slung firearm comforting. The individual in the video is a punk, but at least he is reminding people (maybe not through his comments) through his walks, that this is normal and lawful.

No way. We don't live in a society that requires citizens to brandish weapons. We are more evolved then that. It's over the top, unprofessional behavior. Cops have enough on their plate, let alone dealing with this shit head.

Streck-Fu · 08-31-2012, 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgoerz

No way. We don't live in a society that requires citizens to brandish weapons.

Open carrying a handgun nor slinging a rifle is brandishing.

**Richard** · 08-31-2012, 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streck-Fu

Open carrying a handgun nor slinging a rifle is brandishing.

Is or is not?

I agree with KG - somebody walking around in an urban area like that with an MP-5 slung over their shoulder is certainly not the norm and fits the definition of brandishing (e.g., to display ostentatiously).

Were there more officers like the one in that video or this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKA3V_vd07c

Richard

monsterhunter · 08-31-2012, 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by RB

Keep in mind "surrender" can mean several things, yes, even as professional as the LEO was. Some LEO's think it's OK to take the weapon and "run the numbers" to make sure the weapon isn't stolen. [dumbass probably wouldn't be OCing a stolen MP5, eh] This breaks into the gray line of search and seizure. Gotta know, ask, and confirm to have a good understanding of where you stand with the LEO and the convo.

I've seen this first hand and agree 100% A lot of departments do not educate their officers as much as they should. Some officers think they can do more than the law allows and wind up getting themselves and their departments in trouble. A LEO overstepping his/her authority is a terrible thing.

monsterhunter · 08-31-2012, 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streck-Fu

Open carrying a handgun nor slinging a rifle is brandishing.

I agree. This is a state issue as well. Here in the People's Republic of Kalifornia, it must be brandished in a "rude or threatening manner." State case law would not consider a holstered or slung weapon as brandishing.

**Team Sergeant** · 08-31-2012, 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by monsterhunter

I agree. This is a state issue as well. Here in the People's Republic of Kalifornia, it must be brandished in a "rude or threatening manner." State case law would not consider a holstered or slung weapon as brandishing.

You can be accused and charged of brandishing a holstered weapon.

I take it you are a concealed weapons instructor? If you are you are wrong and if your not you might want to limit your comments to what you know.

monsterhunter · 08-31-2012, 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

You can be accused and charged of brandishing a holstered weapon.

I take it you are a concealed weapons instructor? If you are you are wrong and if your not you might want to limit your comments to what you know.

I don't know under what circumstances you can be charged in California with brandishing a weapon that is simply holstered. If you were to hold onto your weapon as if posturing you were going to remove it while acting in a threatening manner, you could be arrested an charged. Just walking around with it holstered and empty, as in most open carry situations, would not get you in trouble (before the law changed). In the last 21 years, this section would not even get past the watch sergeant.

I'm not a concealed weapons instructor, but the instructor is not going to be the one making the arrest.

**Team Sergeant** · 08-31-2012, 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by monsterhunter

I don't know under what circumstances you can be charged in California with brandishing a weapon that is simply holstered. If you were to hold onto your weapon as if posturing you were going to remove it while acting in a threatening manner, you could be arrested an charged. Just walking around with it holstered and empty, as in most open carry situations, would not get you in trouble (before the law changed). In the last 21 years, this section would not even get past the watch sergeant.

I'm not a concealed weapons instructor, but the instructor is not going to be the one making the arrest.

Let me school you then, if I'm in a heated argument with anyone and to the point where I'm real pissed off, and I slide my jacket to show you my holstered concealed weapon that's brandishing.

Now tell me if you're a law enforcement officer or a clerk that works for them? And yes I was a certified concealed weapons instructor.

monsterhunter · 08-31-2012, 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Let me school you then, if I'm in a heated argument with anyone and to the point where I'm real pissed off, and I slide my jacket to show you my holstered concealed weapon that's brandishing.

Now tell me if you're a law enforcement officer or a clerk that works for them? And yes I was a certified concealed weapons instructor.

I see what you are talking about. I'm was simply refering to a standard non threatening open cary situation. Somebody just walking down the street with an unloaded handgun. But then again, this is now illegal here.

In the situation you mentioned, the indivudual would be arrested and charged with brandishing. There are other situations where just possessing a holsterd weapon would be cause for arrest as well, but again, I was only referring to otherwise legal open carry. In the situation you mentioned "rude or threatening manner" is clearly demonstratred.

As for my qualifications: I'm a field sergeant with LASD.

**Team Sergeant** · 08-31-2012, 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by monsterhunter

I see what you are talking about. I'm was simply refering to a standard non threatening open cary situation. Somebody just walking down the street with an unloaded handgun. But then again, this is now illegal here.

In the situation you mentioned, the indivudual would be arrested and charged with brandishing. There are other situations where just possessing a holsterd weapon would be cause for arrest as well, but again, I was only referring to otherwise legal open carry. In the situation you mentioned "rude or threatening manner" is clearly demonstratred.

As for my qualifications: I'm a field sergeant with LASD.

I recently stayed at a Holiday Inn......

monsterhunter · 08-31-2012, 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

I recently stayed at a Holiday Inn......

I've been schooled by civilains, trainees, and all kinds of folks. I can learn from anyone and will never know it all. What I have often found is the civilian who spends time to educate themsleves on state and case law, on one issue, will often times know more than the law enforcement officer.

**Team Sergeant** · 08-31-2012, 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by monsterhunter

I've been schooled by civilains, trainees, and all kinds of folks. I can learn from anyone and will never know it all. What I have often found is the civilian who spends time to educate themsleves on state and case law, on one issue, will often times know more than the law enforcement officer.

When I was in "training" for my weapons permit and license I paid no attention to the weapons portion of the training, but listened to "everything" that was discussed about the legal aspects of concealed carry.......