Street Gangs

Smokin Joe · 02-07-2004, 00:15

What are your guys feelings on Street Gangs? Should they be treated as Domestic Terrorist and persecuted such? Whats your solution to getting ride of Street Gangs?

02-07-2004, 13:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Smokin Joe
What are your guys feelings on Street Gangs? Should they be treated as Domestic Terrorist and persecuted such? Whats your solution to getting ride of Street Gangs?

Although they do terrorize locally, this is a local law enforcement problem. Until they attack national infrasctrucutre (power, industry, roads, etc....) or are detected working with foreign terrorists, they should be treated as punks with guns who commit crimes.

Although, as the Pentagon has stood up a new command, Northcom, it would be great, if feasible, that the Army created another SF Group focused on North America.

02-07-2004, 13:25

US Northern Command

**The Reaper** · 02-07-2004, 14:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Spartan

Although, as the Pentagon has stood up a new command, Northcom, it would be great, if feasible, that the Army created another SF Group focused on North America.

I fail to see the requirement or the point of it.

The creation of a new command does not validate the requirement for an already overtasked and undermanned resource.

TR

NousDefionsDoc · 02-07-2004, 14:45

Me either. I don't see the need for the DHS either.

Street gangs are an LEO problem - Organized crime. Personally, I would like to the FBI out of the CT game and devoted solely to OG and CONUS stuff. I think their CE stuff should be done by somebody else. Its the Federal Bureau of Investigation, not the Federal Bureau of Operations.

Disband the DHS and make the DCI the DCI, but he has to have an intel background. FBI would fall under a reverse Posse C if I was King. And I think the USMS should play a bigger role, like take over the FBI's operational elements.

**Roguish Lawyer** · 02-07-2004, 16:02

I agree it is a local LEO problem only.

Two-pronged approach:

1. Serious crimes should be met with severe and certain punishment. We could have a long discussion about why we don't have that now.

2. Much of the problem is caused by a social vacuum. Many of these kids don't have fathers around, so they have to look elsewhere for what fathers are supposed to provide. The welfare system and the deterioration of our culture have a lot to do with this situation, IMO.

NousDefionsDoc · 02-07-2004, 16:23

I didn't say "local" LEO. I said LEO.

1. We all know why we don't have punishment.

2. BS - my Dad was never around and I'm not a criminal, in the US.

He sold meat during the day and raised cattle and farmed at night.

**Roguish Lawyer** · 02-07-2004, 16:27

Quote:

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
2. BS - my Dad was never around and I'm not a criminal, in the US.

He sold meat during the day and raised cattle and farmed at night.

What do you mean by "around"? If only that he was working a lot, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about kids raised by poor single mothers who have been completely abandoned by the fathers. It's not impossible to raise a kid in that situation, but it's awfully tough.

02-07-2004, 16:41

Well, perhaps not the creation of a 'new' group, but perhaps a tasking towards assignment of operating MTTs geared towards creating a capability for local law enforcement groups to task organize into a regional response team, when terrorism occurs on our soil.

Attacks will come in many forms in the future, either locally and to a lesser extent, into coordinated regional attacks. Gangs may or may not be part of it. For the most part, they are opportunists and could do so for financial gain. It's not like they care about the local populace.

While this may be a bit off-topic in terms of dealing with gangs, SF providing training on how law enforcement could militarily task organize for a strong regional response would be a beneficial. That is done partially with such things as incident command teams, however I don't know that LEOs have the mindset or organizational ability to setup and run operations against an organized enemy or one who attacked and was escaping the area.

Who would better teach these sorts of things to local law enforcement? Is it not necessary for them to have these skills? Do they have the ability to do these things already?

NousDefionsDoc · 02-07-2004, 16:46

I mean my and my brother's contact with him was minimal. He was up before we were and still working when we went to bed. he was an unseen part of the household. He didn't discipline us, he didn't help with homework, he didn't play. He couldn't. he was working 20 hours a day.

My mother worked a full time job for as long as I can remember.

I'm not saying its the same thing as the father skying out, but I think the other is a cop out. My brother is a single parent and he is raising his daughter right.

A bigger problem I think is a complete and utter lack of respect for authority. We dealt with Moms all the time, and I can't remember her saying "Wait until I tell your father." She didn't need back up. if somebody elses mom saw us screwing up in public, we got an ear pulled or at least something said. We had our own rules to follow.

Kids now a days seem to think they are equal to adults. I've even heard people talk about a child's rights. Kids don't have rights like free speech. They have a right to shut up and do what they are told. The only rights they have are those like 3 hots and a cot, an education and not to be abused.

I can't even imagine me wearing a T Shirt to school, them saying it was against policy and suing the school. My old man came to my school ONCE, my senior year. I refused to wrestle because of something the teacher said. I didn't call the old man, the school did.

We see it on here all the time. They come in here thinking they have a right to be here. They have a right to say whatever they want. We've encouraged this behavior by "listening to them". By being open and trying to understand them". All that Spock shit. Whatever happened to the Mom look - that one that could stop a charging rhino in his tracks? You think my old man wanted to listen to my problems after a day of worrying about the weather, checking for brucellosis, fighting with customers, stealing from Peter to pay for fuel? Hell no! We didn't even stay in the same room as the adults, much less get involved in the conversation.

I still call my father sir and don't curse in front of my mother. And my father can't beat me anymore.

Manners, respect, manners.

NousDefionsDoc · 02-07-2004, 16:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Spartan
Well, perhaps not the creation of a 'new' group, but perhaps a tasking towards assignment of operating MTTs geared towards creating a capability for local law enforcement groups to task organize into a regional response team, when terrorism occurs on our soil.

Attacks will come in many forms in the future, either locally and to a lesser extent, into coordinated regional attacks. Gangs may or may not be part of it. For the most part, they are opportunists and could do so for financial gain. It's not like they care about the local populace.

While this may be a bit off-topic in terms of dealing with gangs, SF providing training on how law enforcement could militarily task organize for a strong regional response would be a beneficial. That is done partially with such things as incident command teams, however I don't know that LEOs have the mindset or organizational ability to setup and run operations against an organized enemy or one who attacked and was escaping the area.

Who would better teach these sorts of things to local law enforcement? Is it not necessary for them to have these skills? Do they have the ability to do these things already?

I don't see this as an SF function. We got away from some core business a few years ago and IMO it didn't do us any good. Be careful what you wish for - they may put it in the task list.

**Roguish Lawyer** · 02-07-2004, 16:52

Your upbringing is the opposite of what I'm talking about, NDD.

I think you know what I mean. I'm talking about parents who fail to discipline and raise their children properly. There is a ton of literature on how the welfare system and other cultural changes have affected this critical societal function. My point is that there are social reforms that could significantly improve the situation. There obviously are single parents who get it done right, but IMO those parents deserve medals -- it's a VERY difficult task as I'm sure you know.

NousDefionsDoc · 02-07-2004, 16:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
Your upbringing is the opposite of what I'm talking about, NDD.

I think you know what I mean. I'm talking about parents who fail to discipline and raise their children properly. There is a ton of literature on how the welfare system and other cultural changes have affected this critical societal function. My point is that there are social reforms that could significantly improve the situation. There obviously are single parents who get it done right, but IMO those parents deserve medals -- it's a VERY difficult task as I'm sure you know.

What social reforms? Look at the personal behavior of the parents, single or otherwise, that have these problem children.

Why do they fail to discipline and raise their children properly?

**Roguish Lawyer** · 02-07-2004, 17:01

Quote:

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
What social reforms? Look at the personal behavior of the parents, single or otherwise, that have these problem children.

Why do they fail to discipline and raise their children properly?

This requires a long response, and I need to get back to work. I'll continue later.

Perhaps D9 will join in; I believe that he and I are of similar minds on these issues.

NousDefionsDoc · 02-07-2004, 17:05

I'll be waiting social reformer. Bring your back up if you want, just more ass for the feast. If I'm not here tonight, I deal with you tomorrow. There's a bunch of old SF guys in town. trouble is brewing.

I will forewarn you though, I will accept no arguements legislating child raising.