Be Prepared

[The Reaper]

Rent a storage unit.

The problem as I see it for you city dwellers is going to be the difficulty of trying to isolate yourself, the rapid spread of the disease due to the concentration of the population and international points of entry, the loss of services (no electricity, water, sewer, or even trash disposal), spread of secondary illnesses after the failure of services, inability to acquire food, potable water, etc. (or to live off the land, unless you like gutterwater, rat, and potentially infected pigeons), numerous criminal gangs who will come take what they want or burn your building down if you are too much trouble, the difficulty of evacuating should you decide to do so due to saturated transportation nodes, fuel limitations, breakdown of mass transit, roving criminal elements, scavenging drug addicts who have lost their primary supply source (who do you think was responsible for the attacks and attempts on hospitals after Katrina?), dispersal of the remainder of the city population, etc. This is compounded by the fact that you live in a known extreme danger area from seismic disturbances.

Do you REALLY have to live there? I am sure that it is beautiful, and very trendy, but there is a price to be paid for that.

If you decide to continue living there, you better have a really good plan to evacuate at first notice, ahead of the disease and human wave, and to relocate to an area where you have better odds.

TR

[Peregrino]

Originally Posted by Bill Harsey

The box looks like it would work. I've seen gas generators made fairly quiet by just digging a hole in the ground and putting plywood over the top and you already have the vent system figured out.

Your article about "box in box" references lead for sound insulation, we used lead lined heavy foam rubber on our logging yarder (V-12 Cummins Engine) to get the noise down to acceptable OSHA standards, also seen it used to make a Beech AT-11 twin engine aircraft(bomber trainer) quieter inside. That stuff could be used on the underside of the plywood top covering the generator in the ground.

Bill - The lead sheathed foam sound insulation sheets are also available from a marine application. IIRC from my sailing days it's sold in kit form to soundproof auxiliary engines on smaller sailboats. The major problem will be heat buildup inside the enclosure - the sailboat aux engines are water cooled. The bilge fan should work very well, just hook it to the 12V outlet on the generator with an in-line switch and turn it on as soon as you start the generator. I like marine appliances. The quality ones are built to survive serious abuse in a salt water environment which exceeds anything I expect them to face in my present circumstances. Anyone planning to include portable 12 volt power systems/appliances in their preparedness plans should seriously consider adding some marine power management books to their library; e.g. "The 12 Volt Bible" and "Living on 12 Volts". FWIW - Peregrino

[jatx]

Originally Posted by Kahuku Saint

I live in downtown San Francisco

I love San Francisco. I would move there in a minute if it had more Texans.

Seriously, though, how about keeping a small sailboat somewhere in the Bay? You could keep most of your non-weapons cache aboard and reach it very quickly, via bike or foot if necessary, and then not have to worry about road congestion. There are plenty of nice boats available in the 30' range for under $20,000.

[mugwump]

Bulk sacks of rice, beans, grits, wheat berries, etc. are cheap, storable foods that have a lot of attractive qualities. The long cooking time, with resulting high fuel use, is not one of them.

I've seen recommendations about Thermos cooking in a couple of the preparedness documents I cited in the pandemic flu thread. They suggest that you purchase large, wide mouth Thermoses. With Thermos cooking, the idea is to get the food to a boil and then put it in the Thermos to continue the cooking process using the residual heat.

This is a poor technique. By transferring the food/water you lose the considerable heat stored in the pot and the Thermos is room temperature to start (unless you waste fuel by prepping it with a hot water flush) thereby initially lowering the temp of anything added to it.

A better technique is the straw box, which many of us learned about in Boy Scouts. The idea is to get the food to a rolling boil in a metal pot which is then taken off the heat and put into a box filled with insulating material. More material is put on top of the pot, the box is closed up, and the food is allowed to cook for several hours on it's own. The advantages are that the heat from the pot is retained and the food is not cooled by the transfer into the Thermos.

The ideal is to find a large styrofoam box such as the kind frozen premium steaks are shipped in. (Push comes to shove, a cardboard box will work OK.) This can be filled with any insulating material you have on hand -- even crumpled newspaper will do nicely. For best results, the insulation should touch the pot on all six sides.

Principles to be kept in mind are these:

* Insulation should cover all six sides of the box.
* The box should be airtight.
* The inner surfaces of the box should be of a heat-reflective material.

There are some adjustments involved in cooking with strawbox cookers:

* Less water should be used since it is not boiled away.
* Less spice in needed since the aroma is not boiled away.
* Cooking must be started earlier to give the food enough time to cook at a lower temperature than over a fire.
* The food should boil for several minutes before being placed in the box. This ensures that all the food is at boiling temperature, not just the water.
* Strawbox cookers work best for large quantities, as small amounts of food have less thermal mass and cool. Preheated stones could always be put in together with the pot to prove the additional thermal mass needed to keep the temperature up over a long period of time.

[The Reaper]

Looks like we are moving on to water/food/cooking.

Let's deal with water purification first, then storage.

I was holding a bunch of bleach till I saw the pool chlorine light. Great idea, much more compact and suited for long-term storage.

For portable use, I have an MSR Miox. Great device, very compact. Used with a coffee filter or fine mesh strainer to remove the particulates, it provides potable water in almost all circumstances using just salt and power from CR 123 batteries.

Boiling water to purify it is, IMHO, a big waste of fuel, unless you have no other means or unlimited fuel.

Anyone else have any different techniques for making potable water?

TR

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by mugwump

Bulk sacks of rice, beans, grits, wheat berries, etc. are cheap, storable foods that have a lot of attractive qualities. The long cooking time, with resulting high fuel use, is not one of them.

[/INDENT]

Not a "cook" are you......

I know little about "wheat berries" but the others you mentioned need only one thing to be consumed, water.
All they need is a long soaking in water to re-hydrate them.

In order to survive one should not mix luxury with necessity. Food is a necessity, hot food is a luxury.

TS

[mugwump]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Not a "cook" are you......

I know little about "wheat berries" but the others you mentioned need only one thing to be consumed, water.
All they need is a long soaking in water to re-hydrate them.

In order to survive one should not mix luxury with necessity. Food is a necessity, hot food is a luxury.

TS

Hey! I'm a good cook!

You've already convinced me that I'll have starving urban refugees inside the wire if the flu hits -- at least let me have a hot meal first. Sheesh.

I'll refrain from respondnig further on food because I've jumped the queue twice now in this thread...back to water.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Anyone else have any different techniques for making potable water?

TR

I got one of these years ago...... (but now I want a MSR Miox also! )

British Berkefeld SS-4

" British Berkefeld is the original world famous ceramic water filter "

British Berkefeld water filters carry on a tradition started by Doulton water filters over 150 years ago! Doulton designed these systems to be used where a reliable source of treated drinking water is unavailable or the drinking water that you have available is of questionable quality. Depending on your needs we have Doulton in-line home water filter systems that are designed to easily install in your existing plumbing or we have British Berkefeld gravity flow models that do not require water pressure or electricity. British Berkefeld makes an excellent camping water filter and it is so efficient that you can actually pour creek water into the system and a short time later you will have good tasting, safe drinking water. How? The pore structure of the cleanable ceramic filters inside both Doulton and British Berkefeld systems are designed to remove very fine particles, cysts and bacteria while leaving the beneficial minerals. These Ceramic filters also have an activated carbon core. This feature allows the filter to reduce chlorine by 95% and also reduces pesticides, herbicides and organic Chemicals. Activated charcoal also removes bad taste and odor making your water taste great even straight from the tap. On our in-line water filter models we added an additional filtering compound that reduces toxic lead and heavy metals sometimes found in municipal water systems. These water filter systems are time tested, reliable and simple to use.

[mugwump]

Executive Summary: Make sure you follow this tip with beans, especially if you use the strawbox method:

* The food should boil for several minutes before being placed in the box. This ensures that all the food is at boiling temperature, not just the water.

Following this advice will get the beans up to 100C/212F and you'll avoid the problem.


------------------------------------------------

Coincidentally, a Google meander led me from a news report of E. coli in spinach to this tidbit about beans:

http://www.foodreference.com/html/ar...poisoning.html

RED KIDNEY BEAN POISONING

Red Kidney Bean Poisoning is an illness caused by a toxic agent, Phytohaemagglutnin (Kidney Bean Lectin). This toxic agent is found in many species of beans, but it is in highest concentration in red kidney beans (Phaseolus vulgaris).

<snip>

As few as 4 or 5 beans can bring on symptoms. Onset of symptoms varies from between 1 to 3 hours. Onset is usually marked by extreme nausea, followed by vomiting, which may be very severe. Diarrhea develops somewhat later (from one to a few hours), and some persons report abdominal pain. Some persons have been hospitalized, but recovery is usually rapid (3 - 4 h after onset of symptoms) and spontaneous.

The syndrome is usually caused by the ingestion of raw, soaked kidney beans, either alone or in salads or casseroles. As few as four or five raw beans can trigger symptoms. Several outbreaks have been associated with "slow cookers" or crock pots, or in casseroles which had not reached a high enough internal temperature to destroy the glycoprotein lectin. It has been shown that heating to 80 degrees C. may potentiate the toxicity five-fold, so that these beans are more toxic than if eaten raw. In studies of casseroles cooked in slow cookers, internal temperatures often did not exceed 75 degrees C..

All persons, regardless of age or gender, appear to be equally susceptible; the severity is related only to the dose ingested.

No major outbreaks have occurred in the U.S. Outbreaks in the U.K. are far more common, and may be attributed to greater use of dried kidney beans in the U.K., or better physician awareness and reporting.

NOTE: The following procedure has been recommended by the PHLS (Public Health Laboratory Services, Colindale, U.K.) to render kidney, and other, beans safe for consumption:
* Soak in water for at least 5 hours.
* Pour away the water.
* Boil briskly in fresh water for at least 10 minutes.
* Undercooked beans may be more toxic than raw beans.

[Kahuku Saint]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

...scavenging drug addicts who have lost their primary supply source (who do you think was responsible for the attacks and attempts on hospitals after Katrina?) ...

TR

I called New Orleans home for almost eight years so you'll have no argument from me on that subject. It was my initial reaction when they first mentioned the shootings.

My point: given the current state of the global economy (whether or not you agree with it), it seems that we're all destined to live in the cities despite the fact that we all can't. I've spent some time in Southern Illinois, and opportunities are thin on the ground outside of basic service industry jobs or Wal-Mart. It's definitely easy to see why the people are evacuating the Mid-West for the coasts.

And since we're all trying to live in the City, or very close to it, how do we mitigate what amounts to the Second Coming? Would forcing the people to still interact by divvying up the basic necessities (i.e., you take the batteries - I'll take the water) help prevent or slow-down the complete unraveling of social order? Or are we just giving cause for neighbor to murder neighbor in a societal free-for-all?

[mugwump]

...sorry, wrong thread.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Kahuku Saint

...it seems that we're all destined to live in the cities despite the fact that we all can't...

No, we aren't. Hence the vast numbers of Red counties from the past two elections. And money isn't everything.

There are plenty of decent jobs in small towns and rural areas. More and more people telecommute these days.

Almost as many nuts and predators live in the rural areas, but a population density of 1 person per acre as opposed to 1,000 per acre means that I am exposed to them much less frequently and they have to make an effort to travel to find me rather than being able to break down door after door in the same building.

Finally, in rural areas, we are a lot less inclined to tell you what you can't have to defend yourself, and a lot more understanding of Darwinian selection than most enlightened urban leadership. If you think that your basic street urchin like you saw floating a raft stacked with beer and liquor down a New Orleans street post-Katrina is going to politely "share" batteries and water with you, I think you missed something along the way.

You make your choices and you live with the consequences. Good luck.

TR

[x SF med]

Originally Posted by mugwump

...sorry, wrong thread.

Mug-
with your new sig, shouldn't we be calling you "Gort"?

[mugwump]

Originally Posted by x_sf_med

Mug-
with your new sig, shouldn't we be calling you "Gort"?

Nope, Gort's my minion -- I'm Klaatu. Megalomania.

I figured those words saved the world from destruction in the 50's, maybe they'll work again.

[deanwells]

We could all learn a thing or three.

Standing by for next installment.