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Old 05-15-2008, 18:15   #121
Pete
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Tent vs Tarp

OK, I threw tent vs tarp out on the first page. Most have gone with tent while a rare few went with tarp.

I'll defend the lowly tarp.

Both offer shelter from bad weather. In good weather both would stay packed. In real cold clear weather both can be layed out and wrapped over your sleeping bag/cover/bed.

A tent must be set up and your equipment moved inside or stacked outside. Once inside you are stuck there. Go inside wet in a driving rain and there you are wet. Keeps raining for three days and there you are unless you pack up in the rain and move out.

Once inside your visability is limited. Hear a noise outside and you have a limited field of view and must move or make noise for a better look. Getting out in a hurry can sometimes be comical - and that would be the last thing needed in an emergency.

A tarp can be set up a great variety of ways, over a rope tied between two trees and staked to the ground on each side like an A frame tent, one pole up in a diamond shape with it's back to the wind or up high like a fly.

In a driving rain you can pick a spot drop your ruck and set the tarp up as a fly over it. High at one end would allow you to build a small fire under it with the dry tinder you keep on you. Wet wood can be added to keep it going so you can brew up some hot water for pine neddle tea.

Also with a tarp if you hear a noise at night you can just open your eyes and you have a pretty good field of view without moving.

Winter Quarters? Review the huts built at Ft Donaldson during the Civil War. Easy quick shelters with a small fire pit.

Edited to add hut link

http://www.nps.gov/fodo/photosmultimedia/tourstop3.htm

This is a big one but shows a fire place. Some were half dugouts.

Last edited by Pete; 05-15-2008 at 18:45.
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Old 05-15-2008, 18:26   #122
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I am adding a multifunction and "collapsible" or perhaps reconfigurable Ti spear/kayak paddle (with detachable carbon fiber paddles that will be designed to double for snow shoe webbing)/walking stick, tent poles?.

I am really thinking speed is the key to survival.

The Donner party had two men that were able to walk out of Donner pass (not named that at the time ) in an attempt to get rescue from the California side. This tells me that a motivated, well trained and prepared individual could make it even in winter.
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Old 05-15-2008, 18:33   #123
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Robert Cavelier

Man, those north woods and the Mississippi were crawling with French woodsmen from 1674 to 1700.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09009b.htm

While the King of England granted land in the area that is now West VA and "to the north fork of the Potomac" starting in around 1669 it appears the Ohio valley area didn't start kicking into gear until post 1700.
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Old 05-16-2008, 06:46   #124
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Portable Soup?

Nobody wants to pack some Portable Soup?

http://www.pbs.org/lewisandclark/inside/idx_equ.html

A partial listing of what they took just over a hundred years later.

Notice the air rifle.
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Old 05-16-2008, 10:49   #125
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Oh God,

Please don't laugh at me...In addition to my essential gear I would want to take some small trinkits, maybe some simple lightweight dollar store type of junk. Not much just a few items. I will probably encounter natives. I would like to have some non-essential gear to trade. I learned a great lesson from my father.

We were in Chiapas in 1994 when the insurgency started. We were stranded and out of gas. He traded a $1.00 Micky Mouse watch to an Indian for 3 gallons of gas, made a new friend and we were able to get out of a bad area with an escort. I would't want to give up my gold unless I had to.
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Old 05-16-2008, 11:05   #126
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Oh God,

Please don't laugh at me...In addition to my essential gear I would want to take some small trinkits, maybe some simple lightweight dollar store type of junk. Not much just a few items. I will probably encounter natives. I would like to have some non-essential gear to trade. I learned a great lesson from my father.

We were in Chiapas in 1994 when the insurgency started. We were stranded and out of gas. He traded a $1.00 Micky Mouse watch to an Indian for 3 gallons of gas, made a new friend and we were able to get out of a bad area with an escort. I would't want to give up my gold unless I had to.
Trading gear is already discussed, look back through the thread.

I found the Lewis and Clark link that Pete posted had a list of trade items as well. No doubt based on actual trading, and not as likely to cause problems like some more modern items might. How much weight would a few hundred steel needles add?

TR
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Old 05-16-2008, 11:50   #127
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Notice the air rifle.
Sounds amazing for the time period.
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Old 05-16-2008, 12:01   #128
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Sounds amazing for the time period.
It was a pretty amazing rifle. So was the firepower demonstration they did with it. Look into European history for period air rifles. Far more effective (within limits) than same period firearms. Good enough for sniping and feared enough to have "kill on sight" orders for people using them.
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Old 05-16-2008, 14:56   #129
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After a little Google work, I'm even more impressed by the capability of the air rifle they had--a magazine-fed repeater, apparently!

http://www.beemans.net/lewis-assault-rifle.htm
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Old 05-16-2008, 17:02   #130
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Take a deep breath.

Lets all take a deep breath, sit down and tug at the ear and scratch the head a bit.

A number have come up with good lists, lots of nifty things but I'd guess most would weight out on the heavy side.

Most lists are like an assault pack, load up, crash into the woods and pop out on the other side.

I'd say each list is broken down into three parts. Bare items needed to survive the trip, items that enhance survival and comfort items. While most here would claim the comfort items are "Survival Items" thats not quite right.

Beaver Fever - it's real and the mountain men knew of it. Prevention? Treat the water, filter the water or boil the water. Being alone even a "clear" spring would be suspect.

Is a filtration system a survival item or a comfort item? All a filtration system can do is filter water. I'll throw out that a couple gal. stainless steel stock pot has more use than a filtration system.

With a fire you can boil up a couple of gal of water real quick. Rains? Set it to catch the drip off the tarp. Also one of the fastest ways to treat a large amount of meat for a few days of quick travel is to boil it. You can stuff a lot of meat into a 2 gal pot.

Make a good stew you can keep it in the pot, reheat it for breakfast, set it in the canoe and reheat it for supper. When not in use it can be filled with small items and stowed in the pack.

Each item should be picked up and looked at. Ask "Does this item have only one use?" "Is it a use that can be replaced with something else?" "Will that other item be more useful?" "Do I need this item to survive or do I want it's comfort?"

Pete

A dull ax makes light work heavy.

Edited to add - I forgot - you can take a good bath with the hot water and clean you cloths in it also.

Last edited by Pete; 05-16-2008 at 17:07.
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Old 05-19-2008, 00:33   #131
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http://lewisandclarkjournals.unl.edu/ <-- Journal of the Lewis and Clark expedition. This is my contribution to the thread, as I am under 21 and have not spent much time in the woods outside of some very basic stuff. This is how I would approach the problem.

I would start in Savannah, Georgia and end in San Francisco, California. San Francisco Bay is a massive, easily recognized terrain feature. I must simply reach the west coast and walk in the right direction. The climate in Georgia is far from tropical, but it is warm, and is probably more forgiving of a starting point than somewhere farther north and therefore colder.

I would set the pickup date for 1710. Problems have a way of popping up, and I would want to take it slowly and carefully, as well as spend some time looking around--I mean, this really is a once-in-a-lifetime shot, and I'm not going to rush it. Besides, San Francisco Bay is a beautiful area with plenty of arable land and a native settlement.

I would get a tooth replaced with a radio receiver of some sort, and put a powerful transmitter on the time machine--as I get closer, tooth vibrates harder. No sense missing my pickup because it landed in a tree, and it's not like there will be interference. An added benefit is that I could lose track of time and still make it.

Prep: Getting tattoos, vaccinations for everything, and I mean everything; a cultural study of the major Native American tribes of the period, and as much practice as is reasonable with a primitive bow and an experienced bowhunter/fletcher.

Tattoos:

1) Tattoo of the map of the continental US with rivers, mountains, forests, deserts etc marked clearly with as much detail as possible on my back. Tattoos of specific regions such as the Ohio valley, the Oregon trail route through the rockies, definitely California, Georgia, and other important areas along the route, determined by careful evaluation of maps and measurements of available space on my body put everywhere space is available.

2) Face tattoos designed to inspire impressions of native deities; another thing to consult historians about.

Weapons: Snares, Machete (sharpening stone), metal arrowheads as many as reasonable, modern arrow-shafts and feathers, and compound bow. 20lbs C4 + detonators. Several small spray bottles of aerosolized smallpox

Kit: Pot that doubles as hat (with strap, handle and visor!), cap and piping to allow conversion for use as a still. Compass-watch, small enough to swallow if required, as well as multiple backups. An altimeter on that watch would probably be nice. Modern pack, Several bladders for carrying water, modern waterproof, insulated blanket, cute fuzzy stuffed animal, preferably built to last, oh and a poncho.

Clothes: 2x durable pants, warm, long sleeved shirts, moccasins

Consumables: Two durable bottles of grain alcohol. One month worth of food. One week worth of water. Several cigarette lighters. Several pounds of seeds (no idea what, I'd have to ask a farmer before I left)

Other equipment: a laminated copy of the ranger handbook with important phrases in as many major native languages, information about assorted useful plants, and as much basic chemistry calculus and physics as I can fit in the margins.

Assumptions:

Everything I pack in will be lost, broken, stolen, consumed, or bartered by the time I get to the other end--probably much sooner, therefore, I should start early doing what I will have to do late. Moving in with the natives, learning their ways, moving west with them, and staying put in their encampment during dangerous weather.

I will not encounter many Westerners (Savannah didn't exist in 1700), but will encounter many natives. I must exploit their knowledge of the area, survival skills, and food stores whenever possible. The locals are likely to have better area knowledge, better bushcraft, and better information about possible routes than anything available in the present day, therefore, I will learn from them whenever possible. The French I find will not be a problem, as my French is marginal, and I have a map of the country on my back which I am willing to share.


Strategy:
This can be summed up as 'go native early and stay that way'. Whether or not it's possible to pull it off on foot without 'going native' is up for debate, but I certainly wouldn't try

The pot and machete are obviously awesome--even Johnny Appleseed had a pot-hat.

I imagine that gun, ammo, and cleaning kit will not be adequate for the entire trek, and that anyone who tries it would eventually be using improvised weapons anyway, so no gun for me. I'm surrendering to the inevitable and using a bow from the start, instead of waiting to run out of ammo before trying to learn to bow or spear hunt. My clothes will wear out anyway, so I had better get used to wearing moccasins and native garb sooner rather than later as well. The blanket is a shelter, a sleeping bag, a sail and generally too useful to not have.

Travel will be slow and steady, involving the (hopefully) willing assistance of the locals.

The C4 is for making loud scary noises to drive off animals, put on a show of force for natives, and clear rubble when necessary. The stuffed animal is for company, and for gaining the trust of the kids. The still and grain alcohol are for the natives--they're missing an enzyme after all. The initial food and water should last long enough for me to link up with (friendly) locals in Georgia, study their ways, and prepare a route north, then west along the Oregon trail, and south to San Francisco.

The smallpox is for returning unopened.

Probability of success: Low to moderate

Probability of successfully settling in with a tribe in a nice section of pristine, clean, pre-colonial American wilderness and starting up a family after missing my ride? Not terrible.

Last edited by Distorted; 05-19-2008 at 00:39.
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Old 05-19-2008, 06:44   #132
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I am sorry, but the thought of you running around with a plush stuffed animal, a tattooed face and a pot on your head, trying to look over your shoulder at the map on your ass, while tossing C4 firecrackers, spraying bio weapons, and swallowing your wristwatch, over a ten year period leaves me speechless.

Did you think this was a zombie hunt?

I need to compose myself before commenting further.

TR
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De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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Old 05-19-2008, 07:01   #133
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I am sorry, but the thought of you running around with a plush stuffed animal, a tattooed face and a pot on your head, trying to look over your shoulder at the map on your ass, while tossing C4 firecrackers, spraying bio weapons, and swallowing your wristwatch, over a ten year period leaves me speechless.

Did you think this was a zombie hunt?

I need to compose myself before commenting further.

TR
ROTFLMMFAO! I should know better than to read this stuff at work. Thank God I put my coffee cup down before I started.
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A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.

~ Marcus Tullius Cicero (42B.C)
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Old 05-19-2008, 09:29   #134
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DISTORTED

You picked a perfect name for your self. Lack of field experience s showing....
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Old 05-19-2008, 09:34   #135
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4 bricks

I'm sorry but I'll have to include 4 bricks.

http://jas-townsend.com/product_info...roducts_id=438

Pack better than coffee and I'll need a good fix every few days. Can reuse them until they produce only clear water.
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