Why it's no fun being a General

[Jo Sul]

I don't see anything wrong with his choice of words . . .

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/03/gen...oot/index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A three-star Marine general who said it was "fun to shoot some people" should have chosen his words more carefully, the Marine Corps commandant said Thursday.

Lt. Gen. James Mattis, who commanded Marine expeditions in Afghanistan and Iraq, made the comments Tuesday during a panel discussion in San Diego, California.

"Actually it's quite fun to fight them, you know. It's a hell of a hoot," Mattis said, prompting laughter from some military members in the audience. "It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right up there with you. I like brawling.

"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil," Mattis said. "You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

Mattis' press office has not yet responded to a request to answer questions about his comments.

However, the Marine commandant, Gen. Michael Hagee, defended Mattis, calling him "one of this country's bravest and most experienced military leaders."

"While I understand that some people may take issue with the comments made by him, I also know he intended to reflect the unfortunate and harsh realities of war," he said in a written statement. "Lt. Gen. Mattis often speaks with a great deal of candor."

Hagee said he had counseled Mattis regarding the remarks and that Mattis "agrees he should have chosen his words more carefully."

"Throughout our history, Marines have given their lives in the defense of this nation and human rights around the globe," Hagee's statement read. "When necessary, this commitment helps to provide us the fortitude to take the lives of those who oppress others or threaten this nation's security. This is not something we relish, yet we accept it as a reality in our profession of arms."

"Lt. Gen. Mattis is a superb leader and one of the Corps' most courageous and experienced warriors," Hagee wrote. "I remain confident that he will continue to serve this nation with dedication and distinction."

Added Marine Gen. Peter Pace, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, "The last three times that that general has been in combat, when he was leading Marines in Afghanistan and the two times that he led his division in Iraq, his actions and those of his troops clearly show that he understands the value of proper leadership and the value of human life."

Pace spoke Thursday during a Pentagon briefing. He declined to comment directly on Mattis' comments.

Early in his career, Mattis served as a rifle and weapons platoon commander as a lieutenant and later a captain. He also commanded assault battalions in Operation Desert Storm and Desert Shield. He was the commander of the 1st Marine Division for the initial attack on Iraq.

San Diego television station KNSD, which calls itself NBC 7/39, captured Mattis' Tuesday comments on video and interviewed a retired military man afterward who said the general's remarks were "flippant."

"I was a little surprised," said retired Vice Adm. Edward H. Martin. "I don't think any of us who have ever fought in wars liked to kill anybody."

[NousDefionsDoc]

"I was a little surprised," said retired Vice Adm. Edward H. Martin. "I don't think any of us who have ever fought in wars liked to kill anybody."

Squid

[QRQ 30]

Perhaps a poor choice of words in public but the truth of the matter was that running Recon in SOG was a somewhat rewarding and satisfactory adventure. The stuff movies are made of: "The ultimate hunting challenge!"

[Airbornelawyer]

Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

Squid

From The Raid , by Benjamin Schemmer:

One of the Hanoi Hilton's last new guests as the Son Tay roundup continued was Navy Commander Edward R.[sic] Martin. Shot down on July 9, 1967, while leading a strike against Ninh Binh, he spent the first year of his incarceration in solitary. After months of that he was near death. He lived on one thought: "Six months from now, I'm going 'home." Every six months, he'd convince himself anew. it was his way of holding onto sanity while they worked him over in the Zoo, finally throwing him into a cell 78 inches long and 60 inches wide with four other men, sleeping on concrete, two of his cellmates in irons, unable to urinate, never getting a shower, not knowing how long they'd be there.

About 2:30 A.M. on November 21, Ed Martin, from his cell in the Zoo, saw the flares over, explosions around, and surface-to-air missiles flying above Son Tay. Instinctively, he knew what was up.

As SAMs arched into the sky almost due west of his prison cell, Martin watched them explode harmlessly only 19 miles away; they were detonating everywhere from 2,000 to 18,000 feet above the terrain. He had seen lots of SAMs-at much closer range. One had finally nailed his F-4 on July 9, 1967. On the morning of November 21, however, Martin realized that not one SAM had hit its target; he knew all too well what the explosion looked like when an SA-2 slammed into a plane in mid-air. He broke into tears. He knew that Son Tay was empty; but that didn't really matter, he told himself. America cared. He had his best night's sleep in three years.

Thirty-six days later, Martin found himself in a native paradise; he was moved into the Hanoi Hilton the day after Christmas, 1970. In a large room with him were 19 other POWs. Some were old Navy friends, some men he had heard being tortured in the Zoo but had never been able to talk to.

One of them was Air Force Lieutenant Colonel James H. Kastler, a hero well before he was shot down on August 8, 1966. He broke both legs on bailout and came to be held in virtual awe by his fellow prisoners. Taken to the Zoo, with Martin in a cell only 25 feet away, Kastler was put "on the ropes" one night and worked over unmercifully by a sadistic expert known only as "the Cuban." He was handcuffed, blindfolded, and beaten 700 times with a fan belt-100 strokes a day for seven days. Blindfolded, he couldn't anticipate the blows. There was no way of knowing when to tense up, when to relax; all he could do was wait. Each time he fell mercifully unconscious, the Cuban waited until Kastler came to and then started over.

Finally, Kastler said, "I surrender, I submit." Guards brought pencil and paper so he could sign his "confession."

But when they told him to write, Kastler replied calmly, "I've changed my mind." His torture started all over again.

Ed Martin listened to it all. He would say of the Cuban, seven years later, "I'd pay $5,000 right now to find out who that bastard is."

Jim Kastler's fate in North Vietnamese hands wasn't made any easier by a Time magazine story about him that hit the newsstands just before his capture. It told of an F-105 pilot who'd become a legend among disgruntled airmen fighting an air war under "rules of engagement" imposed by Washington that made it almost impossible to hit a meaningful target, and which had turned the skies over North Vietnam into a duck-shooting gallery. But, Time noted, Major James Kastler somehow always got his target. No one knew how he did it. A week later he was shot down on a strike south of Hanoi. It wasn't long before Hanoi got its copy of Time and the North Vietnamese knew they'd nailed a big one. They kept him in solitary for years, determined to break him. Thanks to Son Tay, Jim Kastler finally got a roommate in the Hanoi Hilton.

Another of Martin's cellmates in the Hanoi Hilton was Captain Bill Lawrence, the Constellation attack wing commander and former aide whom Tom Moorer had heard shot down on June 28, 1967, a few weeks before he became Chief of Naval Operations. Martin saw Bill Lawrence go down; he was leading a strike right behind him. Two weeks later, Martin himself got smoked. Wounded when his plane was hit and beaten to a pulp later, Martin soon became very, very ill. He thought he, was going to die. He used the tap code to seek help. Lawrence was the man he contacted. Lawrence told him not to give up. When he didn't hear from Martin, Lawrence tapped out a message asking for Martin's help. It forced Martin to "get it together" and not give up. Thanks to Son Tay, Martin and Lawrence finished their "Program" in North Vietnam together.

[NousDefionsDoc]

Squid. POW, but still a Squid.

[aSk^Ghost]

I think it`s disrespectfull. People think about iraqis or afghanis just like the germans did about the russians in WW2. Just being born in a richer world doesn`t mean you`re worth more than someone who wasn`t that lucky and who had to work hard from a young age

[Roguish Lawyer]

"Lt. Gen. Mattis often speaks with a great deal of candor."

LMAO -- I love guys like this.

[QRQ 30]

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

LMAO -- I love guys like this.

NE TOO!!

Folks: what some of the public seem to fail to realize is that in combat the enemy has the sole purpose of killing your ass -- period. Had we adhered to today's PC attitudes in the past great leaders such as Patton would have been corraled. It takes warriors, not gentlemen to win battles.

I recall some wimp at DLI asking me why Airborne troops were so rowdy and unruly. I replied that they may be but in a fire fight I'd prefer to trust my life to the rowdy drunken troopers than polite PC "intel types".

For all of the horrors of war there is a certain exhillaration in victory. Like it or not!!!

[mffjm8509]

Originally Posted by aSk^Ghost

I think it`s disrespectfull. People think about iraqis or afghanis just like the germans did about the russians in WW2. Just being born in a richer world doesn`t mean you`re worth more than someone who wasn`t that lucky and who had to work hard from a young age

Put yourself in the arena before you judge.

What makes you think that the appocolyptic terrorists we face are hard working contributors to society. They hid in the shadows and attacked innocent civilians during the elections last week. When we resopnded in force they ran like cowards.

I like the Generals attitude, and so do his troops. No counseling is needed, except for the PC leadership that belives you can have proportional response to an enemy that knows and respects nothing but violence.

mp

[jatx]

This reminds me of Clint Smith's quote on 60 Minutes some years ago - "Some people just need to be shot." Who can argue with that?

[Trip_Wire (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

LMAO -- I love guys like this.

Me too! Just why I always loved Gen Patton!

[Trip_Wire (RIP)]

Originally Posted by aSk^Ghost

I think it`s disrespectfull. People think about iraqis or afghanis just like the germans did about the russians in WW2. Just being born in a richer world doesn`t mean you`re worth more than someone who wasn`t that lucky and who had to work hard from a young age

Naw! Not for spelling... may be attitude?

[NousDefionsDoc]

Originally Posted by aSk^Ghost

I think it`s disrespectfull. People think about iraqis or afghanis just like the germans did about the russians in WW2. Just being born in a richer world doesn`t mean you`re worth more than someone who wasn`t that lucky and who had to work hard from a young age

1. I have zero respect for those sons of bitches.
2. Research "dehumanization of the target" and get back to us.

[Mac]

Disrespect? I dont see that at all in any of his statements. One has to be capable of being respected before one can be disrespected, and the animals he's talking about dont rate that. How can you give respect to the loaves of dung who slaughter innocent people? How can you give respect to the schmegma of humanity who will go to any length to maintain their power base and keep their boot on the throats of those that they "rule"? I have more respect for the steamy, curled up presents my dog leaves on the lawn than I do for these pigs.
Religion and poverty level have nothing to do with it, either. I spent a lot of time living with people who have had NOTHING. We built them schools and dispenserys , drilled wells, MEDCAPS/VETCAPS, etc. and I had a lot of respect for some those people. They just wanted to live their lives, raise their families and live with SOME form of dignity. They are Muslim, I am Catholic. So what? Incidently, those were'nt the people that we are hunting. Those arent the people the General was talking about. He was talking about terrorists. We are hunting terrorists and their supporters. Our job is to eliminate the threat they create. For us and others. To do so with enthusiasm and relish is difference between a warrior and a bystander.
A terrorist is a terrorist. I would venture to say Ireland is a developed county, wouldnt you? As I said, Im an Irish Catholic, and would have no compuction to put a bullet into member of the IRA any less than a member of Al Qaeda. Why? Because they are terrorists, one in the same. No difference. They kill innocent people (remember the bomb at Harrods Dept. store at Christmas?). They are animals and they need to be destroyed, period. The only thing the man who made those comments should be counceled about is "get back to the line, Marine, and stop talking to those assholes from the press".

[Mac]

Sorry, that response was to Ask Ghost's post...havent quite got the copy/pasting the quote bar above my response before my post down yet..