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-   -   Belleville vs. Wellco (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1233)

D9 04-05-2004 15:06

Belleville vs. Wellco
 
After hearing that they are interchangeably issuing the Belleville 700 and Wellco VCL-ICB, I noticed that the market price of these two boots differs dramatically ($88 for the Wellco, $120 for the Belleville). I would've thought, as they are issuing them interchangeably, that they are about the same boot. Is there a material difference in the quality of these boots? Anyone have experience with both that may be able to comment? Thanks.

shadowflyer 04-05-2004 15:36

D9,


I can only comment on the Wellco's and I LOVE them, they are probably some of the most comfortable boots I have put on. I wish I would have had them when I was in the Navy, Navy issue boots are NOT good for your "dawgs" that is for sure.

Jason

D9 04-05-2004 15:45

Quote:

Originally posted by shadowflyer
I can only comment on the Wellco's and I LOVE them, they are probably some of the most comfortable boots I have put on. I wish I would have had them when I was in the Navy, Navy issue boots are NOT good for your "dawgs" that is for sure.
Agreed on the Wellcos. I've got a pair of the jungles w/ Tuffkushion and they are very comfortable. I'm just wondering if there's anything special about the Bellevilles that justifies the price differential. Thanks.

Surgicalcric 04-05-2004 16:04

Scott:

There was a discussion about this over on Lightfighter. You may want to check that out.

As for the interchangability and price difference, they both have a contract to produce boots for the Army. The price difference is pretty much in line from what I have been told with the boot that is issued to the USMC now. From what I have gathered over on LF the Wellco is better constructed than the Belleville.

Makes things clear as mud huh?

You know how I feel about my VCL-ICB's. The Tuff-cushion soles is the way to go.

pbr549xxx 04-05-2004 16:57

When I found out I was deploying to Iraq, I went out and bought a pair of Wellcos that resembles the Belleville Air Force Desert Flyers boots, but with the tuffcusion sole. A few weeks later, I was issued a pair of Bellevilles, similar to the brown suede USMC boots that go with their spiffy new marpat uniforms. They have a sole just like the tuffcusion sole. Both boots are very comfortable. The Bellevilles where issued about a half size too big (easily solved problem with thick socks). I wear the Wellcos because they look cooler LOL, and I paid for them, I might as well get all they are worth out of them. I hope the Wellcos will hold up through a Afghanistan deployment if I ever go there.

Surgicalcric 04-05-2004 17:12

pbr:

Could you compare the stitching and such on the two boots and post an overview?

Thanks

pbr549xxx 04-06-2004 04:35

Ive seen a few Soldiers in my company that went to Afghanistan with the Belleville AF Desert Flyers boot that had the stiching on the heel blown out. It didnt allow sand or anything to get in the boot though. I havent put my boots through anything near the extreme conditions of Afghanistan, so I dont think I could give a very good comparison. I will take a closer look at the Belleville s and the Wellcos though and compare the stiching.

Surgicalcric 04-06-2004 08:03

I had heard/read there was a stitching problem on the Belleville's that was why I posed the question. You answered it.

Thank you.

QuietShootr 04-22-2004 14:41

I just got my tan Wellco ICBs today...they feel pretty damn good already.

Except for the left foot....or maybe that's the two broken toes:D

Surgicalcric 04-22-2004 21:31

QS:

Did yours come with the Tuff-Cushion or the Panama soles?

QuietShootr 04-23-2004 08:54

I got the Tuffkushions. I ordered them direct from Wellco...

Ghostrider 04-24-2004 12:24

I've got the Belleville 790s. Nice mid-sole like tuffkushions, very rugged sole that haven't broken down like the crappy issue desert boots, and relatively cool (temperature-wise).

ccrn 05-08-2004 14:47

I was wondering if either of these boots are regulation for SFAS?

I am starting rucking but have no source of army issue out here where I live. The local "Army-Navy" only sells korean knockoff jungle boots. Therefore I will have to travel to find a pair.

Also not to hi-jack but should I use an ALICE pack with or without a frame?

I have search this on the web and two differnt related SF sites but could not come up with concrete answers.

Thanks in advance-

ccrn

Edit: Corrected for spelling.

Surgicalcric 05-08-2004 15:21

1.) Yes. The Wellco VCL-ICB's are initial issue boots now for all IADT students.

2.) With Frame. (Its ALICE as opposed to Allison)

Ghostrider 05-08-2004 15:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Ghostrider
I've got the Belleville 790s. Nice mid-sole like tuffkushions, very rugged sole that haven't broken down like the crappy issue desert boots, and relatively cool (temperature-wise).
I also have Wellco Jungle boots that have been doing very well.

ccrn 05-08-2004 15:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Surgicalcric
1.) Yes. The Wellco VCL-ICB's are initial issue boots now for all IADT students.

2.) With Frame. (Its ALICE as opposed to Allison)



Thanks-

ccrn 05-08-2004 23:28

I found the VLC-ICB on the Welco website, it looks about like a jungle boot with its cordura upper. Wellco states its a hot weather boot.

Is this boot practical in colder weather also?



ccrn

Surgicalcric 05-09-2004 00:01

I wore mine thru most of the winter and did not have a problem with them not keeping my dogs warm. They are definately warmer than the leather leg boot that was/still is issued.

ccrn 05-09-2004 13:33

I appreciate the answers you guys have given me. I'd like to clear a couple of things up just so I'm not operating under assumption.

The Wellco VCL-ICB is regulation and will pass inspection at SFAS with the Tuffkushion sole with V-Track? I've read elsewhere that instructors are very conservative regarding soles (standard issue) etc.

Also, with the Wellco VLC-ICB is it worth the trouble to have the toe and heel caps removed, or is this procedure more suited for other boots of somewhat different construction.

I'm on a budget and want to purchase two pairs to break in with the idea I can use them in service for awhile-

Thanks

ccrn

Surgicalcric 05-09-2004 14:25

Quote:

Originally posted by ccrn
I appreciate the answers you guys have given me. I'd like to clear a couple of things up just so I'm not operating under assumption.

The Wellco VCL-ICB is regulation and will pass inspection at SFAS with the Tuffkushion sole with V-Track? I've read elsewhere that instructors are very conservative regarding soles (standard issue) etc.

The Wellco VCL-ICB is being issued to IADT students and are being taken to SFAS by the 18X and REP-63's. I was told by TR when I questioned their use in SFAS that if they are issue I will be good to go with them.

Quote:

Also, with the Wellco VLC-ICB is it worth the trouble to have the toe and heel caps removed, or is this procedure more suited for other boots of somewhat different construction.

I'm on a budget and want to purchase two pairs to break in with the idea I can use them in service for awhile-

Thanks

ccrn

I would not be concerned with the toe and heel caps in the wellco ICB's. I would however invest in some good insoles for them though.

I hope this answers your questions.

ccrn 05-09-2004 17:03

surgicalcric-

Thanks for your replies. WOuld it be ok to PM you sometime?

ccrn

FullGallop 05-13-2004 11:52

Does anyone here know how they take the toe and heel cups out of boots? Just a curiosity mainly.

I think doing this is a personal thing but I'm with SC on what he said about insoles. Good insoles make a great difference even though the insoles that came in my Bellevilles were nicer than I had expected. I have kept the toe/heel cups in mine and don't find them a hinderance at all. This boot design (790/Wellco) is great IMO and no real modification seems necessary. In fact I would worry after wearing these boots for as long as I have that removing the cups would change the fit and therefore cause problems so far unseen.

take care....

Surgicalcric 05-13-2004 16:43

FG:

I would not recomend taking the heel and toe caps out of the Wellco ICB's or the 790 variant.

As for having them removed from leg or jungle boots; I can only speak from what I have been told but Clark's Boot Repair at Ft Brag removes the sole to decap/cup boots. I have heard others talk about cutting the inside of the boot with a razor and pulling the caps out with pliers/leatherman/etc... I had the heel caps removed from my leg boots by Clark's and they are much better on my feet.

Some people need them removed and some dont. It seems to be as varied as the type of insole people use... And on that subject I just got a pair of Superfeet Green insoles and these things are great. I may...may like them better than the Aero soles I have in another pair of boots.

I would get back with you guys on this, but I am getting pretty short and dont think I will be doing any rucking from here on out.

HTH.

James D

FullGallop 05-13-2004 17:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Surgicalcric
FG:

I would not recomend taking the heel and toe caps out of the Wellco ICB's or the 790 variant.



I would get back with you guys on this, but I am getting pretty short and dont think I will be doing any rucking from here on out.

HTH.

James D

I hear ya'! Are you planning on trying to get some off time rucking in during OSUT/BAC? I seems staying up to par before SOPC might be difficult though I plan on spending most of my free time training in one way or another. Realizing I dont want to burn out of course.

PS. Do you have any more drills before you ship?

Surgicalcric 05-13-2004 18:14

Quote:

Originally posted by FullGallop
I hear ya'! Are you planning on trying to get some off time rucking in during OSUT/BAC? I seems staying up to par before SOPC might be difficult though I plan on spending most of my free time training in one way or another. Realizing I dont want to burn out of course.

PS. Do you have any more drills before you ship?

I do plan on doing some rucking in the evenings during the AIT/Infantry School portion of OSUT as permitted by the Drills.

Well, there is a drill scheduled for 21, 22, 23 but I will not be attending. Too short to risk jacking myself up anymore. I should probably not even go back to the FD after last weeks fiasco...but I digress.

How about you? You have another one?

pbr549xxx 05-13-2004 18:28

Do you guys think that you will have that much time off during OSUT at Ft. Benning? I went through many years ago, but I doubt things have changed so much that trainees assigned to the ITB get free time or off time to run around Ft. Benning with a ruck on their back. You will have very little time without a Drill Sergeant around you, unless you are alseep. If things have changed though, let me know.

Surgicalcric 05-13-2004 19:00

pbr549xxx:

I have been told by several recent graduates of OSUT that there is some free time in the evening's after mid-cycle pass.

I dont know if it is true or not...give me about 13 weeks and I will let you know for sure.

FullGallop 05-13-2004 19:21

Quote:

How about you? You have another one?
Yes, one more. Starts tomorrow through Sunday. Camp D. is apparently hosting a couple thousand Marines doing a train up this weekend so were gonna be up in the mountains and far far away from the madding crowd:D

On another note, I was down at Ft. Knox yesterday and they are apparently doing OSUT there now as well. I did'nt really have time to check it out but there was a big sign posted out front of one office that read "OSUT/BASIC". Have you heard anything about this spreading to places other than Benning?

Surgicalcric 05-13-2004 19:40

I am going to try to field your question FG.

OSUT (One Station Unit Training) means you will have BCT and AIT at the same installation with the same privates and DS's.

19-series MOS's go thru OSUT at Ft Knox.

11-series at Ft Benning.

12-series at Ft Leonard Wood

FullGallop 05-13-2004 20:21

Got it thanks. I knew what OSUT was but did'nt realize it was for anything but 11 series folks. Makes sense now.

take care....

mffjm8509 05-24-2004 18:28

I also just recieved a new pair of Wellco dessert boots. I did have to reorder for a wider pair, as they ran a little narrow on me.
So far they are great, and Dawn in customer service has been a great help.

mp

The Reaper 05-24-2004 18:33

Quote:

Originally posted by mffjm8509
I also just recieved a new pair of Wellco dessert boots. I did have to reorder for a wider pair, as they ran a little narrow on me.
So far they are great, and Dawn in customer service has been a great help.

mp

I sized mine at the Wellco store here in Fayetteville, and they had me call the factory directly to order what I wanted, shipped directly to the store for pick-up.

I asked for seconds, but I think they pulled firsts, and billed them to me as seconds. They are very comfortable boots.

Great people in the store here as well.

Hey, MP, did you see any boot problems with the SFQC studs?

TR

mffjm8509 05-24-2004 18:48

Quote:

Originally posted by The Reaper
I

Hey, MP, did you see any boot problems with the SFQC studs?

TR

Sure, there were always problems, primarily from guys that did not come prepared with either proper fitting boots, or boots suited to the tasks. There were one or two studs that attempted the STAR in Cochrans, but I'm sure they only tried that once!

While worked at Phase II we limited the type of boots to standard issue leather or jungle boots, weather dependent. Wellco boots with the tuffcusion sole werent allowed, dont know if they authorized now or not. The idea was to keep all the studs in the same gear, particularly after we started getting the 18Xers on the IAP program.

mp

The Reaper 05-24-2004 18:58

And there you have it.

Save the big money boots for when you get to a team. Level playing field here, gents. The issue ICBs will be the exception.

See what happens at SERE if you show up with any belt other than the issued non-stretch type. Bring exactly what is on the list, and nothing else.

Yes, we have a problem with people who at worst, are trying to get over or at best, can't follow simple instructions.

TR

highlevel 11-23-2005 16:34

A buddy of mines had the same problem
 
determining what to use, then we found out that there was a wellco store in right outside of bragg, the actual store. So i told him to go to the store and find out some information , well just say he was happy with his wellco choice. If you are going to bragg just go in the store and try them on to see if they feel better than the bellevilles you have. Try them on to see. I think it is Combat Footgear but to be sure ask on the web site. wellco.com:)

The Reaper 11-23-2005 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by highlevel
determining what to use, then we found out that there was a wellco store in right outside of bragg, the actual store. So i told him to go to the store and find out some information , well just say he was happy with his wellco choice. If you are going to bragg just go in the store and try them on to see if they feel better than the bellevilles you have. Try them on to see. I think it is Combat Footgear but to be sure ask on the web site. wellco.com:)

highlevel, this is mentioned already in this thread, as well as several other places on this website.

Additionally, you appear to lack the SA and common courtesy to read the numerous Intros and stickies we have posted here in an attempt to help new posters.

You also need to learn how to use Modern Standard English, to include proper punctuation and capitalization.

Finally, you have not filled out your profile or posted an Intro in the proper place.

Do not post again here till you have read the stickies and complied with the instructions.

TR

CombatWombat 11-27-2005 15:00

I was issued Bellevilles for basic training. At first they were heavy and uncomfortable, but after they were broken in they were the best boots I owned. I will wear them over my jungles. You can wear them in any phase of the pipeline because they are issued boots. They are more expensive because they have gortex liners. Hope that helped.

SOC Tab 11-27-2005 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surgicalcric
Scott:

The price difference is pretty much in line from what I have been told with the boot that is issued to the USMC now. From what I have gathered over on LF the Wellco is better constructed than the Belleville.

The USMC may be issuing that boot to BOOTS during boot camp, but sources tell me that the FMF is now issuing 2 pairs (hot/cold weather) of Danners to all Bn's prior to SWA deployments, Afghanistan in particular. They found that the others don't stand-up to the task out there.

Then again, your resluts may vary. What's good for you, I and the guy next door is 1/2 anatomics and 1/2 preference in the end.

My take/experience with the Bellevilles is, that they're a "poor mans" Danner, contracted for use by Armed Forces of the DoD. Use them when given to me with no other choice, of course...buy them, no.

As for the Wellco/Belleville direct comparrison, can't comment...BUT have heard pos feedback on the Wellcos. I'd be privy to trying on a pair myself.

If I was in a student status again in some pipeline somewhere, I'd view it like this: it's just another tool, you put it in your bag and do the job.

Agreed w/others...spend the $$$ on something nice when you start Operating.

ST

JGarcia 10-26-2007 07:10

Belleville 340 vs. Belleville 390
 
Dead thread resurrection....

How are your Bellevilles and Wellcos holding up two years later?

I am about to buy some new boots, doing my homework. I want to stick with a boot that is an issue item, so I am avoiding all the "gucci gear" trendy looking boots that stick out like a strobe light in the night.

I think I have settled on the Belleville 340 instead of the 390 because of the Nomex used in the 340. My reasoning is that in the unlikely event of being inside a military vehicle during an IED attack, my feet would be protected from flash burns. Is this a good idea, or should I just stick with the regular old 390?

340

390


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