Rucksacks
 

I find this interesting. There are 3 rucksacks issued:

ALICE, been around since Jesus
http://www.mil-kit-review.com/assets/images/alice1.jpg

MOLLE
http://www.special-warfare.net/data_...ackpack_03.jpg

SPEARS
http://www.gregorypacks.com/images/p...backpack_l.jpg

I along with everyone else on this board have years under the ALICE ruck. I have tried to pack 10 pounds of shit into a 5 pound bag and have experienced the "if you haven't broken this frame, you haven't carried enough weight" aluminum frame. Yet, this seems to continue to be the preferred ruck amongst those able to make a choice. Benefit: Light, large opening Disadvantage: If you want something at the bottom, you have to empty it. Aluminum external frame

MOLLE: I have no experience with this one, yet seems to be the ruck conventional army is switching to. Slightly larger ruck with a seperate sleeping compartment attached to the bottom. Still an external frame and have heard complaints from more then one person regarding the frame cracking under weight.

SPEAR's: Made by Gregory Mountain Products, a mountain pack manufacture, for the military with an internal frame and suspension harness. Largest capacity of the 3 with a weight limit at 125 lbs. While that may appear extreme, it is realistic in some situations. Access points on the top as well as the bottom through the sleeping compartment. Disadvantage: Weight and the body is not as wide.

What I find interesting is that most seem to prefer using the ALICE and a few go with the MOLLE, but I have yet to see anyone using the SPEAR's version. What is your ruck preference? Why?

Side note: I have been looking at this one designed by Kelty.

http://www.amronintl.com/tactical/products.cfm?id=646

Have you given any thought to Kifaru?

Having only limited time under the green tick I dont have a preference as to an alternative, but can tell you at my first available juncture I will be finding something other then the ALICE pack.

A for the Kelty pack, Brad has one of them at the Lightfighter Store here on Bragg Blvd if you would like a closer look.

Crip

IMHO...Alice Sucks....
 

But she is sweeter and more reliable than any of the others...
in the end I carry ALICE.

:munchin

My preference from civilian experience is internal frame. I like the load carry better. Always feels like I am carrying substantially less weight. I have looked, briefly, at Kifaru but my civilian experience is with Kelty and I am really impressed with their stuff. Their MMR has roughly the same features, but twice the price. The biggest feature I like is the side zippers that allows for another access point to the main compartment without having to unpack. Group gave us Kelty MAP 3500's and I like the mesh back for airflow. I wasn't aware Lightfighter was carrying Kelty. I will have to stop by for a look.

I dont know that Brad is stocking them, but there is one on the wall there with the rest of the packs. It is OD.

I am with you on the internal frame packs. I have a Marauder and a Zulu and enjoy them both, but neither have the internal capacity of an ALICE. The Marauder is going to be used as an Aid Bag (if I ever get that far...No comments from the Peanut gallery.) The Zulu is more of an intermediate bag and with the modularity that comes with the PALS coverage on the exterior I could damn near add enough pouches to get it close to the CI of an ALICE, but in no way would I want to. I think this would throw the balance/wear characteristics off. I like the MMR and EMR as well, but damn 4 Washingtons and change.

Other than the mesh backing how does the MAP 3500 stack up against other 3-day/assault packs?

As for comfort in the short term, have you given any thought to an ALIPAD from HighSpeed Gear Inc? Again, I dont have one, yet, but there are several of the TAC's here who have them and swear by them. I know of a couple guys out at Sage now who purchased them to make an ALICE more user friendly.

just my uneducated .02 YMMV

Crip

Traded a large ALICE for a Bergen once. That thing could hold more shit that a Ford F-150. Course this may explain why I always got stuck with most of the spare battery's and ammo.

At 3500 cu.in. it provides a lot of capacity. Consider that the main portion of the MOLLE ruck is only 3000 cu.in. It has the hydration pouch and the heavily padded shoulder straps made from the same mesh material. They are positioned closer in on the collar bone and don't ride out on the shoulders. As an Echo, it would be nice if it had a radio pouch.

I have pretty much sworn off the ALICE at this point and will use the MOLLE if need be. I am going to start using the SPEAR's UM21 over the next month to see how I like it. I am in charge of PT for the next month, so time to do some rucking. I just wish it had the side zipper and hydration pouch.

Since we are talking about ALICE frames, Mystery Ranch, who if I remember right, developed the suspension harness system, manufactured a frame for the ALICE called the nice Frame. Although, it is some coin at $219.

i liked the old mountain rucks, somewhat like the Brits' Bergen...it had a lot of the favorable attributes of the ALICE, in my opinion, the weight of the ruck was better distributed and the frame hardly ever bent or deformed...for awhile, i used the frame for an ALICE but some AH with nothing better to worry about than uniformity put the brakes on that endeavor...when i was in BT, we tried the Lowe's system, with detachable pockets, zip-on, zip off stuff, an internal frame, somewhat akin to the SPEARS in appearance....stuff dropped off when going through the woods, it was hard to rig for airborne operations and the zippers rarely worked in cold, icy weather...we gravitated back to the ALICE because, while it didn't hold enough stuff, it was reliable...yeah, i bent my share of frames over the years, but compared to having a pocket with your dry socks in it drop off in the Isar River, it was worth the trade off...

when i was a company commander in Alaska, Natick came up to do a study on soldiers' load...our average ruck, moving about in the Arctic, was around100 pounds...basically, a troop carried his MOPP stuff, two sleeping bags, ammo, socks, food, dry clothes, ponchos, etc...the ALICE packs were filled to the bursting point and they were looking for a solution...it seems, 16 years later, they are still looking...

I have seen them, but for $219.00 plus the price of an Alice, plus mods to the pack itself to make it user friendly I could just buy an EMR/MMR or 2 of the Kelty's.

And on the note of PT. I would rather ruck everyday of the week than run twice. Some of the guys here swear I move as fast with the ruck on as I do running ...ahhh.

Crip

I have one of those old mountain rucks, CF-19 if memory serves me. We had those issued to us in the early 90's in the 82nd. We just could not use them because they required a single-point release system and Division didn't have any to issue, so they sat in the bottom of the wall locker. It's kind of hard to ask the Powers That Be to spend the money on new equipment like this when the troops will not/can not use it. Kind of hinders the whole R&D process.

This what used during my service, the load capability is of course for specific type of uses.







Positive:

+ Rugged design, can withstand rough use and extreme weather conditions
+ Snow covers on pockets
+ good side pockets
+ Separate, easily accessable pocket for stove and other related kit.
+ 80 litre capacity


Negative:
+ Not easily compressable, if not fully packed
+ Somewhat cumbersome to adjust
+ No breakaway EE/other type pouch (Althogh it does come with very basic day pack)
+ Not the easiest to use if combined with a chest rig/harness.

When you guys say "bergen", which one do you mean? Bergen is a general term for a pack, and, IIRC, RM and Army issue differant ones.

Para, you're referring to the CFP-90, a good idea gone very bad with the addition of a crappy suspension system (the adjustable plastic track) and construction by the lowest bidder. The size was good for a cold weather ruck, as it could hold all your high bulk/low weight snivel gear, but guys would fill it up with dense, heavy items (like batteries, ammo, pyro, etc) and the suspension would inevitably fail, or pockets would rip out because they were only single-stitched.

The SPEAR ruck by Gregory was issued after I got out, so I don't have first-hand experience, but the feeback I've heard from guys that used it was almost unanimously negative. Its damned heavy even before you put anything in it (over 16lbs IIRC), has straps everywhere that are difficult to manage, and is really wide at the bottom. Most of the guys I know that had 'em keep 'em in a box at home. On the upside, its issued, so there's no out-of-pocket costs to you.

Kifarus are expensive, for sure, but the quality is incredible. I've had the chance to look closely at just about everything they offer, and I've not been disappointed a single time. The suspension system works very, very well at tranferring the load to your hips/legs. On the flip side, this means you need to keep your waist clear of gear on belts and such, which may not work with your set up. This, however, is true of all internal frame rucks, so it may not be a big issue for you as you already have experience with civilian versions.

Again, I don't have experience with MOLLE rucks, but the prevailing feedback is that the first generation ruck frames were far too fragile for military use. The second generation frame is supposedly much stronger. There is also supposed to be a new bag issued that is a single, large compartment (similar to the lg ALICE) vice the separate gear/sleeping bag set up currently in use. I don't know when these improvements will become issue items, but I believe the new frame is currently being sold by Eagle on their website.

The Eighty-Deuce has the new Molle System now, or atleast some of them do. I see the young studs on the tank trails all the time with their sleep system hanging off their as...back sides.

Crip

Havn't rucked here on post with the MOLLE yet, but we took it too Iraq. It would have been nice to have more than one access point and Crip's right about the sleep system at the bottom hanging off. It seems no matter how tight we had it, the sleeping bag pouch would hang down, bouncing unneccessarily.