WP grad killed at Costco in NV because he was carrying CCW
 

Erik Scott was an acquaintance of mine from years past. He was carrying a weapon, someone freaked out and the police overreacted and killed him. It's a travesty - especially now that the police seem to be lying. If you read in the comments there are plenty of people who were there and saw the entire thing. His girlfriend was with him, he was minding his own business browsing Costco. He was an entirely decent and wonderful man.

I'm just sick over it and I fear for good men and women who carry legally.


3 Officers Involved in Shooting at Summerlin Costco
Posted: Jul 10, 2010 1:32 PM PDT Updated: Jul 12, 2010 10:14 AM PDT
Video Gallery
ON THE SCENE: Man Killed in Officer Involved Shooting
2:23
Erik Scott Erik Scott

LAS VEGAS -- Three Las Vegas police officers were involved in a shooting at a Costco near Charleston and Pavilion Center in northwest Las Vegas.

Police have released few details about the shooting, but say the suspect was shot by three officers while exiting the store, He died from his injuries. Friends and family members say the suspect is Erik Scott, a West Point graduate, and in his 30's. One friend said Scott was at Costco to pick up a prescription.

"The individual was shot -- its out in the open area right near the tire store. He was transported to UMC where he was pronounced dead at that point," said Metro Capt. Patrick Neville. "He had a weapon on him. I know the question is going to come up. The weapon is laying right out in front of the store. We also found another weapon when we transported him to the hospital."

The incident happened just before 1 p.m. Saturday. Police were called when Costco workers saw the suspect destroying merchandise inside the store. Someone noticed the suspect had a gun and store security evacuated customers and employees.

Police say when they approached the suspect, he drew a weapon and pointed it at officers. After refusing to drop the weapon, three officers fired multiple rounds, striking the suspect numerous times.

Costco employee Brenda Franklin says the scene was frightening. "We were told to immediately evacuate the store. No one told us why. They just told us to get out of the store. We immediately dropped what we were doing and exited. As soon as I got to the front door, I heard about five shots," she said.

There were no other reports of injuries. Officers credited the Costco security staff for evacuating everyone out of the store in a timely manner.

The officers are on paid administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation. The confirmed identity of the suspect will be released by the Clark County Coroner's Office.

http://www.8newsnow.com/global/story.asp?s=12785291

Another article saying basically the same thing - no witnesses saw anything to merit a shooting:


http://www.lvrj.com/news/slaying-of-...-98223884.html

Please accept my condolences for your loss.

I guess this adds emphasis to the need to maintain good concealment.

I had just been reading this on GlockTalk where the thread is a bit longer, there was a post containing what claimed to be a second hand account from a friend of his girlfriend saying that your friend reached to pull his shirt up or something along those lines and was shot. It is a sad story, hopefully the security tapes are released so we know what happened.

I’m sorry for your loss Shar :(

Rest in peace Mr. Scott. Prayers out to family and friends :(

It appears someone is trying to CYA… Gun shy Po Po these days seem to me a whole lot more dangerous than civilians with CCW permits.

It pays not to print, SmartCarry®

RIP.

Sorry for your loss, Shar.

You can bet there is a video if it happened at the entrance to the store.

I will wait for the investigation.

TR

I'll wait until an investigation is conducted. Not enough confirmed info yet.
Very sorry for the loss of your friend.

RIP. :(

A lot of this case will depend on what he was actually doing in the store to warrant the Police showing up. What the Police were told over their Radios when called. What they thought was the suspects intent.......
If he lifted up his shirt so they could see a Gun. Thats pretty much the definition of brandishing a Weapon. Police don't have to wait until a Weapon is pointed at them. Police Academy's teach Police to be much more aggressive then they did in years past.
If police approached you. Never show them a Weapon on your body. I would not even tell them I had a Gun. Simply do what they say. Then when they have control of you. Then tell them your carrying. A lot more to this story thou I'm sure.

This has obviously been bothering me a lot - I called and talked to my husband about it and he said the same thing I think a lot of you are thinking -

He should have put his hands up. No questions, no hesitation.

It just bothers me that the entire thing went down the way it did. There has to be video and I'm sure it will be very enlightening. I haven't seen him in about 15 years, but I don't think he's changed that much based on what I've heard from other friends and read. I think he was a good guy who assumed that the cops would immediately understand he was a good guy so he didn't posture himself as he should have in this situation - as a bad guy.

The lesson I bring away from it is that it doesn't matter how "good" you are or how right you are or how otherwise peaceful and normal a suburban situation you are you in - when guns and police are involved you comply - no explanations, no questions. I guess I could totally see myself trying to explain the situation or continue to try and convince someone of my "goodness" as things escalate so wildly out of control. The facts might bear out something else, but I honestly believe one mistake (not complying to the letter) killed him.

It just makes me sad - especially for those who love him that are left behind to deal with the mess.

Also, I hope this case doesn't become some gun banning rally cry. I really like knowing that good, trained people - like those on this board - are out there with weapons in case things go bad.

My condolences, Shar, to you and all affected by the loss of this man. :(

LL

RIP

Sir,

Is that true for all PD's? If so that scares the s*** out of me because I have already gone through 2 dui checkpoints when I was CCW. I informed the officer that I was carrying and it wasn't a problem, but that makes me nervous. What about open carry then because I do that when I'm hunting.

Shar.

I'm sorry for your loss, I just lost one of my best friends 2 weeks ago in a car wreck. I feel your pain of losing your friend in a tragic way.

Shar,

I feel sorry for the loss of your dear friend............... God Bless,Rest in Peace Warrior............:(

Big Teddy

Shar please accept my condolences on this loss. It is a horrible situation. :(

Vets
 

Officers identified in shooting at Costco; lawyer says man did not pull gun

http://www.lvrj.com/news/man-did-not...-98279344.html

".........Officers William Mosher, 38, Joshua Stark, 28, and Thomas Mendiola, 23, shot and killed Erik Scott, 39, near the exit of the store. Mosher, the veteran of the group, has been with the agency five years. Stark and Mendiola have been with the department for less than two years............."

and

".....Saturday's shooting was not the first for Mosher, who in April 2006 was one of two officers who shot and killed a suspect in a car......"

Shar,

My condolences to you, on the loss of your friend.:(

This is general, not in reference to the topic at hand,

fng13, no police offer, actually no american has to wait for you to actually point a gun at them to respond with deadly force. The threat of going for one is enough. I may butcher the exact legal wording, but if a person of a sound mind justifiably feels threatened with severe or lethal bodily harm they may defend themselves with up to deadly force of their own.

A LEO cannot blast you because you have a gun on your hip, but if he thinks you are reaching for it to shoot him with, he has the right to defend himself, just like any private citizen really.

To the OP I apologize for not expressing my condolences, I am sorry for your loss, no matter how close or distant they may have been.

Our condolences on the loss of your friend Shar.

My condolences on the death of your friend, Shar,


Rest In Peace.

I wonder if there were conflicting commands from the police officers on the scene - one telling Mr. Scott to do one thing and someone else commandng him to do something else.

SA was FUBAR all around.

Richard's $.02 :munchin

Here's the version of the story I received: http://www.lvrj.com/news/slaying-of-...-98223884.html.

I went to a very small high school with Erik and his younger brother, Kevin. Erik was 3 years ahead of me, but he was a standup individual then, a mentor to a friend of mine while at USMA, and a friend and an inspiration to most in our school.

I know it's been a long time since I've seen him, longer than Shar, but I think it would be ABSOLUTELY out of character for Erik to have destroyed merchandise or brandish a weapon to individuals in the store--causing the police response. I guarantee this will be deemed a bad shoot, which means nothing at this point because we have lost a great individual.

My prayers go out to his family and friends.

This is a terrible situation all the way around, my condolence and sympathy to the family and friends of Mr. Scott.

My friend is on the investigating team

He is a retired Army Ranger

this should be interesting

I'll pass along any details that are relevant

RIP

I am so sorry for your friend's death. Terribly tragic.

Thank you.

This part could, at the very least, lead to your losing your permit here in NE. If you've got a CCW permit, you're required by law to inform the police at the beginning of any official contact. It'll also come up on their terminal when they run your ID. Again, that's here in NE. But I'd do the same thing anywhere. At the onset of official contact, keeping hands visible and at no time reaching for the weapon: "I'm required by law to inform you that I have a concealed carry permit and that I am carrying a firearm. What would you like me to do, sir?" Then follow the cop's instructions.

Shar, sorry for your loss.

Be thou at peace.

Your talking about two totally different circumstances. Read my post again carefully

Update

LINK

I-Team: Father of Man Shot by Police at Costco Speaks

[QUOTE=nmap;339471]Update

LINK

I-Team: Father of Man Shot by Police at Costco Speaks

Yes lots of conflicting reports both official / non - official
the investigating team is still sifting through a lot of details.

everything like this goes through the coroner's inquest first.

I can tell you one version is he went into the store picking fights with people, management called police and evacuated store, Metro showed up and apparently Erik lifted up his shirt showing his Kimber .45, supposedly drawing it. This is the basis of the initial "Official" report.

This is a statement from my friend on the investigating team
"Let me assure you. My agency will do the right thing. If the officers were wrong, they won't just lose their jobs, they will go to prison. "

I'll pass along anything relevant

Thank you very much.

Well someone has transcribed the radio chatter from the call.

Something interesting comes up around the 13:18 mark. I have marked it in bold.

Audio can be downloaded here:
http://www.filedropper.com/costcoois1

Transcript:
Dispatcher: Units in V3, a 413 at Costco, 801 S. Pavillion Center. The male is inside the business to the rear of, has a 413 that's tucked into the back of his pants. We're still landline. (6:53)

K916: K916 back on channel. (7:03)

D: K916 (7:04)

AIR5: AIR5, we're going to go to the Costco first. (7:11)

D: AIR5, copy. (7:14)

2X12: 2X12 (7:20)

D: 2X12 (7:21)

2X12: You can disregard the air unit, I see customers coming out (related to a seperate 407A) (7:25)

D: 2X12 copy. K914, if you could be en route with AIR5 on the 413 at Costco in V3, 801 S. Pavillion Center. (7:35)

K916: K916, you can assign me as well. (7:42)

D: K916, copy. (7:44)

D: 2V16, if you'll also be en route on the 413 at Costco, 801 S. Pavillion Center. The male inside the business is acting erratic, throwing merchandise around, possibly high on unknown type of 446. (8:03)

2V16: 2V16 copy, from the Suncoast. (8:07)

D: 2V16, they are requesting CIT. Male is possibly ED. 767, did you copy? (8:16)

767: Put me en route to that please. (8:19)

D: 767. (8:21)

2DP62: 2DP62, clear me and show me en route. (8:25)

D: 2DP62. (8:26)

767: 767 (8:37)

D: 767. (8:38)

767: Go ahead and have medical en route also, just to stand by for us. (8:41)

D: 767, copy. (8:42)

2V55: 2V55, can you clear me B-baker and show me en route to Costco. (8:53)

D: 2V55, affirmative. (8:56)

2V16: 2V16 en route code. (8:58)

D: 2V16 (9:00)

2V55: 2V55, same traffic. (9:04)

D: 2V55 (9:05)

351WC: 351. (9:11)

D: 351 (9:12)

351WC: Have those units shut down code when they get close. Let's not get this guy more exicted than he already is. (9:18)

D: 351, copy. Units, shut down code when you get close to the Costco. (pause) (9:23)

D: Units en route on the 413 at Costco, 801 S. Pavillion Center, suspect's described as a White male, 32, 5'8, medium build, red hair, wearing a gray t-shirt, blue jeans, and white shoes, break. A black 9MM is tucked to the rear of his pants. (pause) (9:53)

D: 767, could you advise where you'd like medical to stage for now? (10:46)

767: Just have them stage, uh to the nearest intersection to that Costco. If you could have them not roll code, that'd be great also. (10:57)

D: 767 copy. Did you want other units to shut down code? (11:02)

767: I just want everybody to shut it down before they get close to that area; I don't want to spook this guy. (11:08)

D: Okay, copy. All units, justs reminding to shut down code when you get close to the area. (11:13)
767: 767 (11:18)

D: 767 (11:20)

767: I need a few more units that could head to that area also, so that we can shut down that parking lot so that nobody goes in or out of there. (11:28)

D: 767, copy. (11:31)

2X12: 2X12, you can assign me. (11:33)

D: 2X12 (11:35)

2X65: 2X65, same traffic. (11:43)

D: 2X65 (11:45)

351WC: Control, 351, where's the CP going to be? (11:49)

D: 767, can you advise? (11:54)

767: I'm not even close to there right now, so if we have a unit that's in there that could set up one real quick, that'd be great. (12:01)

2V54: 2V54, I'm arriving in the Costco parking lot, where do you want me? (12:07)

D: 2V54, at this time uh, I guess heading up a CP. (12:16)

AIR5: AIR5, did you have any further at all? (12:22)

D: It looks like the subject is still inside the business, argumentative with the manager who asked him to leave, telling him there's no 413's allowed inside the business, break. The manager is a Green Beret and is allowed to carry a 413. He's throwing merchandise around; he's still in isle 126 in the camping area, break. He appears to be fidgety. A female joined the male. She's described as Hispanic, 30s, black long hair, wearing black tank and blue jeans. Security's going to be standing outside the business in front of, to wait for officers to direct, break. He's walking through the camping area towards the front of the business on the main isle. (13:18)

2V54: 2V54, did you want me to stop people from going in the business? (13:22)

D: Uh 767, that's affirmative. Stop in or out? (13:26)

767: Affirm. (13:28)

D: V54, affirmative, uh V54, did you want a red? (13:32)

2V54: Hold off for a moment. (13:34)

D: Okay, copy. (13:35)

2X65: Control, 2X65 (13:37)

D: 2X65 (13:38)

2X65: Run this by the WC and Sarge. If we could get the management and employees to start slowly evacuating people out of the business without alerting anybody, that'd be a great idea. (13:50)

351WC: Control, 351WC, absolutely. (13:53)

D: Acknowledge that. (13:57)

2V54: 2V54, manager says it's escalating inside and he's still talking loudly and destroying merchandise. (14:06)

D: 2V54, copy. 2V54, are you able to get security started on exacuations? (14:14)

2V54: Affirm (14:16)

D: Okay, copy. (14:17)

2V16: 2V16, I'm out with 2V54. (14:55)

D: 2V16 (14:57)

Unknown bit of traffic (14:59)

D: All units, code red this channel. Officers arriving on the 413 at Costco, 801 S. Pavillion Center. (15:07)

2V16: 2V16, we need units to clear these people out of here. We're attempting to evacuate right now; get as many people out as possible. (15:45)

D: 2V16, copy. (15:47)

351WC: 351WC, where's the CP? (16:45)

D: Uh 2V54, can you advise location of CP? (16:50)

AIR5: AIR5, they're both right in the front entrance to the store. (16:55)

D: AIR5, copy. (16:57)

784: 767, 784 I'm arrived. What can I help you out with? (17:07)

767: You can set up the CP, that'd be great. (17:10)

784: : Copy, I'll set one up. (17:15)

AIR5: AIR5, are we still landline with anyone who has eyes on this guy, because there's a lot of people pouring out of the store. I just want to make sure he doesn't slip out. (17:28)

2V16: We got 2 officers here at the front doors watching everybody come out. (17:36)

D: 2V16, copy. AIR5, it looks like we're still landline. It looks like the male is still being watched by inside personnel due to him ripping open packages. They're concerned of a 414A. (17:49)

2V16: Copy, we've got a very orderly evacuation going on right now. We'll try to get all these people out of here and then figure out what we're going to do next. (18:00)

D: 2V16. (18:01)

2V54: He's directly in the middle of the building. (18:08)

D: Okay, copy. Confirming suspect's directly in the center of the building? (18:14)

2V54: ___ isle. (18:16)

D: You broke on the isle, could you re-advise? (18:20)

784: 784, copy location for IC. (18:31)

D: 784 (18:32)

784: It's going to be set up at the northwest parking lot at the Red Rock Casino across Charleston. It'll be the Costco command. I'll be incident commander until the arrival of 351WC. (18:46)

D: 784 copy. 351WC, incident command at northwest parking lot of Red Rock Casino across Charleston. (18:55)

AIR5: Control, AIR5, we need 1 unit to take the north side of the Costco please, right off of Pavillion Center so they can keepy an eye on the back and the east side. (19:02)

2V16: (yell) 2V16, we got shots fired, shots fired! (19:11)

D: 2V16, copy. Anyone down? (19:12)

2V16: Roll medical. (19:13)

D: 2V16. (19:15)

767: Go ahead and make the notifications. (19:19)

2V16: Notify supervisor. (19:21)

D: 2V16, copy. (19:22)

351WC: 351WC, I'm arrived, south end of the building. Is it safe for everybody else to enter the building? (19:28)

D: 2V16, can you advise? (19:30)

2V16: He pulled a 413 and pointed it in my direction. (19:38)

D: 2V16, copy. (19:40)

767: 767, can yu go ahead and make your notifications, please? (19:43)

D: 767, copy. (19:45)

767: Shut that parking lot down, please. (19:47)

D: Units arriving on the 413, shut down the parking lot. (19:51)

AIR5: They've got him out front, they're taking him into custody. Hold the traffic. (19:57)

D: AIR5, copy. Subject is out front, taking into custody. (20:01)

767: 767, let's make sure nobody else exit's that Costco right now. We may need to pull witness statements. (20:17)

D: 767, copy. Units, make sure no one else exits the Costco, they may need for witness purposes. (20:24)

784: Copy that they're taking him into custody. We're going to move the CP closer to the Burger King directly across from the Costco. (20:35)

D: Copy that, CP will be moving closer to the Burger King (20:39)

Dispatch
 

"............D: It looks like the subject is still inside the business, argumentative with the manager who asked him to leave, telling him there's no 413's allowed inside the business, break. The manager is a Green Beret and is allowed to carry a 413. He's throwing merchandise around; he's still in isle 126 in the camping area, break. He appears to be fidgety. A female joined the male. She's described as Hispanic, 30s, black long hair, wearing black tank and blue jeans. Security's going to be standing outside the business in front of, to wait for officers to direct, break. He's walking through the camping area towards the front of the business on the main isle. (13:18).............."

Dispatch was saying a lot about what the individual was doing.

Lots of talk about what he was doing inside.

When are we going to see the inside tapes? What was the "....throwing merchandise around;....."? Did he have something in his hand that he was going to buy but after being asked to leave he threw it on the counter?

Wonder who the manager was? Green Beret? Was the manager the one at fault? Pumped up the situation and gave the police a false impression of what was going on inside?

Well, from what I've been reading is that "there was a 'technical issue' with the security camera equipment that has made the tapes either 'unavailable' or of 'not good enough quality to be of use'"

The 2 most popular theories I've heard in the carry community where I'm from are:
An employee noticed the man carrying, asked the man to leave, the man stated that he has a permit for his weapon and does not need to. The employee went and told the manager that the man was being difficult. The manager then called the police and either told them what he thought would just be a "simple white lie" to get them there faster.

and

The manager was notified of the man carrying or noticed himself, then he decided to confront the man and was rebuffed and decided to teach the man a lesson.

Either way this stinks heavily.

ETA:
http://www.8newsnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=12816105

I interpret the tapes differently. I am MORE suspicious of the victim than of the police response after reading this small piece of the puzzle. I won't condemn the victim yet, but I think it is ignorant to place a lot of suspicion and blame on the employees or police as well.

I usually find that this forum's members have a disgust for armchair commando/ quarterbacking based on initial after action reports and subsequent days worth of research and background perspective. That information is not what the officers responding to this report had in their decision making process.

The victim's father seems to smell some fishy behavior on his son's part as well based on his statement. It is a very tragic story and outcome, but I'm betting there is a LOT more to this story. We will see. :munchin

FWIW, if you are carrying concealed ( as I do often), the rules of the game are tilted much more towards Big Boy rules. You give the a responding officer no choice. Deep down, I think everyone on this site knows the ramifications of "allegedly" acting in such a fashion when armed and getting into conflict.

The security tapes....
 

As had been talked about before - the officers responding only had the information that was given by dispatch - which was gotten from the Costco employees.

The first key to all this is the inside security tapes showing his actions. Real funny how they are not available.

RIP Mr. Scott.

Sorry for your loss, Shar.

You can bet the video at the entrance to the store will be controlled now.

On the Costco/ police issue:
I will agree with you, I am somewhat suspicious about the actions of the man. When/ if confronted he should have asked to speak to a manager, and if they still requested he should have left instead of gotten into an argument (if that is what happened).

I don't enough about what happened once the police got on scene to make a decision on that issue. I don't know if anyone but those involved in the incident do.

But something stinks on the side of the Costco people (technical issues with the equipment for example).

On carrying:
I believe that when carrying (I prefer OC to CC) you must act as a representative of the carry community, and you imagine that all your actions are being scrutinized twice as hard as if you were not carrying (even if concealed). Not to say that one should be nervous about carrying, but one must have better SA and a better thought process.

If someone sees you acting like an a hole/ miscreant while carrying you are more likely to have an unpleasant encounter with someone and/ or the police.

If someone sees you acting in a grown up/ professional manner you are more likely to have a pleasant encounter with someone and/ or the police and may change a few minds about the "crazy gun carrying community."