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-   -   Anybody know these guys? (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19672)

JimP 01-02-2009 08:40

Myong Mayes!! Now's there's a blast from the past - Did she still have her "ouch stick"?

pointfiveoh 01-02-2009 10:50

I took my Concealed Weapons Permit class from Charlie Campbell. He said he served with SOG in Viet Nam at some point.

Eagle5US 01-02-2009 16:47

My LTC buddy and I outed James Webb, 3rd guy over in the original set of photos. I worked with him in PACOM and he was touting himself as a "Vietnam Era SF hero now searching for fallen brothers and POWs". After things didn't add up in talking to him, I got my TC involved (verified Long Tabber and Commander of DET 3 in Vientiene Laos at the time. A full investigation was initiated and he had been touting this story for so long that he had everyone running with it. Not only did we out his phony SF stories and status (sole survivor multiple battles CCN; SF Long Tab Status - he was an intel warrant - green beret photo taken while support folks were still authorized to wear it) other than his "martial arts training" all of his martial arts "recognition" claims were also fake...(World Martial Arts Hall of Fame, Kung Fu Hall of Fame, Official redesignation of his legal name to "White Tiger" by the Republic of Korea:eek:, Official Grand Master for the ROK Tae Kwon Do school for Korean Special Forces).

Jim did do a great deal to help bring home hundreds of military personnel missing in Southeast Asia as an Investigative Team Leader for Joint Task Force-Full Accounting. Unfortunately, his efforts were tainted by his claims of being Vietnam Era Special Forces and Martial Arts "royalty" to both secure his employment and further his own agenda.

Jim was fired 1 October 2003. He supposedly moved to Pattaya, Thailand where and opened a martial arts school and a bar (two different locations) not far from the TQ2 (Tahitian Queen 2) where we all used to hang out while traveling through Pattaya on mission. I have not heard from him, or about him since my part in his being removed, but was disappointed to find out my suspicions were confirmed at the conclusion of the investigation.
Of course, that disappointment lasted about 10 seconds...but it was there none-the-less.

Eagle

Eagle5US 01-02-2009 19:54

A portion of the investigation from 2003...
 
I must also give a great deal of credit to CSM (R) Joe Lupiyak who was working at SWC at the time and was also instrumental in helping us get this investigation off the ground at the time.

This information was presented to our Task Force Commander. The "Outing Message" to our Commander was also omitted as it was quite personal and rather "flamboyant with rampant emotion":D . For PERSEC reasons, I have edited out some of the names and e-mail addresses, it is by the request of the SF LTC who got personally involved with this investigation at my request.
End result, Mr. Webb (aka Fabio) has been offered "early retirement" effective 1 Oct...

Txxxx>
> This was the e-mail I sent Webb's partner (Joyce). I never got an answer back and they shut the web site down the next day
>
> Bxxxx
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Cxxxxxxxxx LTC
> > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 11:10 AM
> > To: 'jjoyce@specialforcescombatives.com'
> > Cc:Dxxxxxxxx CW3; Pxxxxxxxxx MSG
> > Subject:I'm interested in SF Combatives
> >
> > Mr Joyce
> >
> > I am sending you this e-mail in my private capacity as a member of the Special Forces Association (D-5922, Chapter 7). A lot of interest (to say the least) has been generated here at SWC by the SF Combatives website. It appears that some of Mr Webb's bio is suspicious---several issues come to mind:
> >
> > 1. No record of his attendance at SFQC during the 81-83 time frame.
> > 2. The only James M. Webb that graduated the Ranger course was a ROTC Cadet from Brigham Young Univ. Class 1-77 (James Matthew Webb).
Possibly your associate used a different middle initial.
> > 3. The obvious questions as to why a MI Warrant would attend HALO, SCUBA, SERE or INTAC.
> > 4. No record of him having served with any SMU (service in these units might explain HALO, SCUBA, SERE, INTAC).
> > 5. His status as an "inductee" to the World Martial Arts Hall of Fame. His is not listed on the existing Web Site (nor among the 2001 inductees).
> > This may be merely an administrative error (not sure who got
inducted in 2002). I have an e-mail out to the Hall of Fame to confirm his status. .(His confirmation was later DENIED)
> >
> > To avoid people questioning your SF credentials it might help if you provided your Ranger Class number and SFQC attendance dates (believe the web site said you were an 18E). I'll confirm your attendance an dispell any allegations to the contrary here at Bragg.

If we cannot substantiate any of Mr Webb's qualifications I plan on contacting Jimmy Dean (National President of the SF Association) and providing our concerns to him.

> > This is cut/paste from the SF Wall of Shame Wannabe's Web Site:
> >
> > JAMES WEBB: Graduated from high school in 1971, but claims to have been with SOG. That would mean that he would have had to complete BCT, AIT, BAC, and SFTG in a little over a year in order to make it to SEA in order to be assigned to SOG. Highly improbable, not to mention, NO record of any SF assignments were located.
> >
> > Xxxxxx CXXXXXXX
> > LTC, SF
> > Deputy Director Xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > (910) 4xx-xxxxxxxx
> > email: xCxxxxxxx@soc.mil
> >
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Txxxxxxxx
>
> 1. This guy is unbelievable. Bottom line. he never attended SFQC, MFF or any other course that I can verify here at SWC. I called the Ranger department on 21 January 03. I am willing to bet that he did not go I cut/pasted this from my 21 Jan e-mail "I contacted the Ranger Department (SFC Sitzler) this morning. Only one James M. Webb has graduated from the
> Ranger Course(a Cadet from Brigham Young--Class 1-77). Other James Webbs may have gone, but only one James M. If we can get his SSN or a firm class date I can check again."
>
> 2. I checked with the MI school and several CI agents I know. None of them know him (I bet he was an all-source Intell Warrant).
>
> 3. His web site claimed that he was a member of the world martial arts hall of fame. That is B.S. We checked the web site. He claimed to have invented the Korean Special Forces Martial Art--what the hell would the Koreans need a gringo to teach them to be Karate-men. He claimed to have been.
>
> 4. No one from 1 SFG can remember him (pretty remarkable for the head Martial Artist in Group). He claimed to have served in Thailand with SF. I checked with several 43rd Co Alumni. No one ever heard of him. One guy (Steve Shoup) brought in his yearbook from the year that Webb claimed to have been in Thailand. He is so secret that we could not find him.
>
> 5. He claims Bronze Stars and tells Vietnam stories don't seem
possible. It may have happened, but I am willing to bet it did not.
>
> 6. He shut his web site down after Phil Provencher, Jeff Dahlby and I began to question his credentials. Tell him to provide dates/class numbers and I will track it down. If he is real I will inform Jimmy Dean at the SF Association, but I bet he does not provide anything concrete. He may be a gifted Karate-man, but I am willing to bet he was never in SF other than working in the Grp/Bn "2" shop.
>
> 7. I have a whole folder (58 e-mails) titled "Wall of Shame" with his stuff in it.

Though Jim being a Poseur has grossly affected his professional relationship with me and now others...I will say that he has done tremendous work in the recovery effort for POW / MIA's in Vietnam. I honestly believe that he has been telling these stories for SOOOO Long unchallenged, that he could probably pass a lie detector test on them. He believes them now to that level.

Eagle

urduman14 01-03-2009 14:08

Larry Jordan
 
I worked with Larry Jordan in 1992 on an exercise called "Manhunt." It was a Law Enforcement field training exercise, and it was a blast. Larry was in charge of the pseudo--OPCEN we set up for the exercise. He was pretty squared away... I think he was assigned somewhere on Bragg at the time.

urduman14

Eagle5US 05-25-2009 20:31

It would appear that Mr. Webb has made an impression with other POW MIA groups here recently.
I received a PM regarding THIS SITE from their folks today.
Interesting read on Webbs fleecing of those folks for cash...and a damn shame.

Eagle

mojaveman 05-25-2009 22:40

Lawrence J. was a Phase III instructor at SWTG when I attended SFQC 4/84. I immediately recognized him from the photograph. I remember that he was of limited stature and somewhat loud.

Soldier4Life 11-23-2010 16:56

SSG Leonard Holifield
 
Most soldiers and commanders who served in the Army between 1990 – 1997 and read Paraglide, Army Trainer, Soldiers and Military Police magazines, have heard of then SSG Leonard Holifield. As I remember, Holifield was instrumental submitting changes to FM 21-150 (Combatives) and in revitalizing hand-to-hand combat Armywide. I remember him from when I was stationed at Fort Sill, Oklahoma, where he was the Chief Combatives Instructor for the FATC. This guy was a monster and he had to be legit, for the Sergeant Major of the Army – SMA Richard Kidd to come to Ft. Sill to meet with him personally to discuss military combatives training. Hope his character isn’t being attacked here, this guy was the real deal!

Sacamuelas 11-23-2010 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soldier4Life (Post 358811)
Most soldiers and commanders who served in the Army between 1990 – 1997 and read Paraglide, Army Trainer, Soldiers and Military Police magazines, have heard of then SSG Leonard Holifield. As I remember, Holifield was instrumental submitting changes to FM 21-150 (Combatives) and in revitalizing hand-to-hand combat Armywide. I remember him from when I was stationed at Fort Sill, Oklahoma, where he was the Chief Combatives Instructor for the FATC. This guy was a monster and he had to be legit, for the Sergeant Major of the Army – SMA Richard Kidd to come to Ft. Sill to meet with him personally to discuss military combatives training. Hope his character isn’t being attacked here, this guy was the real deal!

S4Life-
Not a good start. No profile information and no introduction posted in the proper thread. Don't expect much validity to be given to your opinion(s) until you follow intro procedures and provide some basis in your profile for having such an opinion.

Just a FYI concerning this site if you want to be taken seriously.

Dusty 11-23-2010 17:20

They sound extremely tactical; but could Smokey tap 'em out? :D

The Reaper 11-23-2010 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soldier4Life (Post 358811)
Most soldiers and commanders who served in the Army between 1990 – 1997 and read Paraglide, Army Trainer, Soldiers and Military Police magazines, have heard of then SSG Leonard Holifield. As I remember, Holifield was instrumental submitting changes to FM 21-150 (Combatives) and in revitalizing hand-to-hand combat Armywide. I remember him from when I was stationed at Fort Sill, Oklahoma, where he was the Chief Combatives Instructor for the FATC. This guy was a monster and he had to be legit, for the Sergeant Major of the Army – SMA Richard Kidd to come to Ft. Sill to meet with him personally to discuss military combatives training. Hope his character isn’t being attacked here, this guy was the real deal!

And who are you, to be vouching for someone else?

Have you read the rules? You have not complied if you have.

Please do so before posting again.

TR

rdret1 11-23-2010 19:17

Is this the same Kelly Worden with all of these videos and stuff on Paladin Press? Kinda looks like him.

http://www.paladin-press.com/categor...d=kelly+worden

Dusty 11-23-2010 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojaveman (Post 266545)
I am certian that Lawrence Jordan was an instructor at SWTG when I attended SFQC 4/84. I immediately recognized him from the photograph. I remember him being of limited stature and somewhat loud.

If I remember right, he was doing wing chun back then, and had a callous on every knuckle of his hand.

Dusty 11-23-2010 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimP (Post 242253)
Myong Mayes!! Now's there's a blast from the past - Did she still have her "ouch stick"?

lol

I wonder how many times she whacked Ray with that thing? :D

blue02hd 11-23-2010 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soldier4Life (Post 358811)
Most soldiers and commanders who served in the Army between 1990 – 1997 and read Paraglide, Army Trainer, Soldiers and Military Police magazines, have heard of then SSG Leonard Holifield. As I remember, Holifield was instrumental submitting changes to FM 21-150 (Combatives) and in revitalizing hand-to-hand combat Armywide. I remember him from when I was stationed at Fort Sill, Oklahoma, where he was the Chief Combatives Instructor for the FATC. This guy was a monster and he had to be legit, for the Sergeant Major of the Army – SMA Richard Kidd to come to Ft. Sill to meet with him personally to discuss military combatives training. Hope his character isn’t being attacked here, this guy was the real deal!

1. Never heard of him.

2. Don't care.

3. Who are you?

4. Sounds like you are trying to sell snow to Eskimos.

5. If your claims are true then can you please link some of these articles so I can read about a "real deal" soldier? I've always heard of guys like him, and it would rest my soul knowing that this hero is not just a marketing gimmick. Invite him to the boards as well,,,,

6. Oh, and the character now being attacked is yours.


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