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Interesting 09-15-2010 18:46

Precision Rifle
 
Hi guys,

Ok, first; I have searched and been educated on precision rifles, not extensively of course. I in no way have any experience with such a rifle since my professional time was spent with a handgun and a shotgun. Then later a patrol rifle.

This said platform I want to be dual purpose unless I am educated different. First and foremost a hunting rifle which can be backed up as being used for other survival purposes. Mainly taking four legged antlered animals.
I have a Remington Model 721 .270 cal but am looking to get something else that I can get spare parts for. Some parts of the 721 can no longer be had, do hobby gunsmithing on the side now, that is how I know that. This rifle must be rugged, easy to maintain and somewhat accurate. I don't think I need to be sub 1/2 moa for a hunting/survival rifle, correct me if I am wrong please. Bolt or semi? Cal for mid to long range with good kinetic energy transfer?

Anyways, wanted to get some opinions from guys who have used these types of rifles for real and not get the hype, I know that is why I am here and that is why I came to this site, tired of the airsofters and arm chair commando opinions.

Thanks in advance for the replies.

:munchin

Justinmd 09-16-2010 00:58

You didn't mention all the types of precision shooting you are doing, you simply mentioned hunting and survival.

If you just need a fairly accurate rifle for hunting, there's many options in the highly accurate range. Just about any bolt gun with a synthetic stock could be considered "rugged, easy to maintain, and somewhat accurate."

You need to define what you consider mid to long range and what targets you are shooting at that range. Kinetic energy TRANSFER is largely bullet construction dependent, kinetic energy LEVELS are largely cartridge, bullet weight and shape, barrel length, etc, dependent.

You need to also mention your price range and your price range for optics.

Then tell us if you plan to reload.

Next, are you shooting matches or doing group shooting or what. Plenty of thin barrelled hunting rifles will put rounds into 1" + or -

Buffalobob 09-16-2010 04:45

A Rem 700 action is about as common of an action as can be obtained. Spare parts are everywhere. If it is trued then accuracy will be extreme.

The 308 cartridge is about the most common cartridge available and can be obtained almost anywhere. It is available in many configurations such as Federal Gold Medal Match. If you learn to reload then ammo availability becomes less of a problem

The problem with a mid to long range survival rifle is going to be the sighting system. Telescopic sights are going to be a problem over the long term and the really durable systems are really expensive. Competition iron sights are not really geared for hunting and I do not know anyone who makes a really good and durable long range hunting iron sight. Parts and repair are going to be major problems to solve.

Something to consider is what does survival mean to you. There is the Mad Max wandering through post apocalyptic mutants and then there is Mormon stockpile food and water in your basement waiting for the Moroni to blow his horn styles of survival.

craigepo 09-16-2010 07:54

Another very serious consideration for you will be caliber. Noting where you live, there are some pretty big critters roaming around.

I built a .308 mountain gun a couple years ago, took it elk hunting, and put three good shots into an elk before he dropped for good. I am quite sure, if that would have been a bear, I would now be bear poop.

The .308 is a good caliber for a "survival gun" here in Missouri. In the Rockies, the animals are bigger, as are the ranges. A .308 would be my absolute-minimum caliber.

You also have to carry the gun, and the hills in Utah are big. I like light guns, and shoot a #3 taper Lilja barrel. However, you are not going to get many shots through this barrel before heat becomes a serious accuracy factor. Also, having a short-action round decreases weight substantially versus a long-action.

In your area, I would seriously consider either a .300 winchester magnum, or a .300 winchester short mag. Very good ballistics and knockdown. Good long range rounds. You can load light for whitetail, and load heavy for bigger stuff. (If you don't reload, find a friend who does.)

A friend recently built a .300 win short mag, going with the short mag to save weight. He built it as follows: Rem 700 action(milled), #3 Lilja barrel, MacMillan stock, aluminum pillar bedding, Leupold glass, talley rings/mounts. The gun is a tack-driver, and has already proven itself well on elk and whitetail.

HOLLiS 09-16-2010 08:11

For your 721 parts, do you know about Numrichs? They are probably the largest supplier of used firearm parts.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/...spx?catid=4335

Combat Diver 09-16-2010 08:31

Interesting,

Concur with my brother OPs. First need a bit more diffinition on use. Besides the 700, don't over look the Savage 110 action (easy to change bbls at home) and the Mauser 98. For a chambering besides the .308, .300 WM and WSM dont' forget the 30-06. All these .30 cals will work and you'll be able to find ammo. There are a few models of the 700 and 110 that come with irons sights (not the best but backups). My hunting rifle is a Harrison and Richardson 340 (Yugoslavian 98) in .308 with a Leupold VXII 2x7. My battle rifle is a 18" FAL with ARMS mount, mounting a Leupold 3x which has proven to drop whitetails at 300m.

CD

Team Sergeant 09-16-2010 11:53

I'm also in the market for a mid-longrange hunting rifle and have decided on the caliber, .300 but not the platform. Though I am leaning toward a Remington 700.

Justinmd 09-16-2010 15:48

TS,
Take a look at the Tikka T3 rifles, they are great values, and a really good general action. I like the T3 over a Rem 700 any day. If you want to go a few steps up, the Sako TRG comes in 300WM and is one of the best rifles available.
Justin

Peregrino 09-16-2010 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justinmd (Post 348786)
TS,
Take a look at the Tikka T3 rifles, they are great values, and a really good general action. I like the T3 over a Rem 700 any day. If you want to go a few steps up, the Sako TRG comes in 300WM and is one of the best rifles available.
Justin

My gunsmith said the same thing "a while ago". I've played with his Tikka and am impressed. I've been looking at the Sako as a basis for a .338 build. Unfortunately, I can't afford to do it right now so it's on the back burner.

Justinmd 09-16-2010 19:53

Peregrino, the T3 is really a great choice, but there's other good ones too. The new Sako A7's are nice, and cheap, Savage makes a good rifle, though I don't like some of its quirks, it really is a good time to be in the market for a decent bolt gun. The Rem's can be customized of course, (there's downsides to the Rem as well) but the others aren't far behind.

For a .338, Sako makes a TRG-42 in .338, it runs about 2700 if you find a good deal. But you can't beat that rifle, for a factory gun. My TRG-22 will shoot just as good as my customs, which is basically saying it will shoot better than my abilities.

If you guys are ever in my neck, we'll get you behind our stuff and turn you into Sako/Tikka believers, haha.
Justin

Buffalobob 09-16-2010 20:00

The Tikka has a weird recoil lug.

HOLLiS 09-16-2010 20:51

I picked up a Thompson Center Icon in .308 Win. Might be worth looking at them.

http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/icon_...ion_hunter.php

Tikkas are nice too.

Interesting 09-17-2010 10:30

Wow,
 
Hey guys,

Sorry been away from the computer some time and only have enough time to post this quick thank you. You all have given me alot to chew on even with some of the PM's that I have received. Having come from the Boy Scouts and then working in LE I am used to being prepared, being prepared for the worst case scenario and hoping for the best and being prepared for the realistic. Sorry, I don't know of any zombies in my AO, LOL. As far as range and caliber, yes I have considered alot and even have some tenantive ideas. I would not go below a .308 cal. and I am leaning towards a larger caliber even though I am not against going with the .308 cal. totally. After continued reading here and elsewhere, been really thinking of the Rem 700 action. While just browsing the Internet just after my OP, I found this site; http://www.deserttacticalarms.com/.
Just wondering on the feasibility of accuracy with a system like that. My understanding, can and willing to be corrected/further educated; is that taking the barrel on/off impares accuracy. Is that not correct? That got me thinking about this system, I like the fact that I could buy two different barrels and basically have a modular system for varying scenario's. But then again this is coming from my VERY limited knowledge of the subject. Still reading Ultimate Sniper and getting alot of ideas from there to.
And, as far as more info, well really I just want something that will take care of big game in my AO, my thoughts are that if it can do that it can handle any survival situation; and ranges can be so varied that I can only generalize it this way, somewhere between 400 and 1500 yds. Most hunting here is between those ranges with the 1500 yds being the extreme, have a relative that took an elk with a .338 at that range.
And this is going to be a work in progress, I want to do it right from the beginning I realize that there is no perfect platform and things may even change but if I start off with accurate information, I may not have much change to deal with.

Thanks guys, keep it coming . . . . .

The Reaper 09-17-2010 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interesting (Post 348880)
Hey guys,

Sorry been away from the computer some time and only have enough time to post this quick thank you. You all have given me alot to chew on even with some of the PM's that I have received. Having come from the Boy Scouts and then working in LE I am used to being prepared, being prepared for the worst case scenario and hoping for the best and being prepared for the realistic. Sorry, I don't know of any zombies in my AO, LOL. As far as range and caliber, yes I have considered alot and even have some tenantive ideas. I would not go below a .308 cal. and I am leaning towards a larger caliber even though I am not against going with the .308 cal. totally. After continued reading here and elsewhere, been really thinking of the Rem 700 action. While just browsing the Internet just after my OP, I found this site; http://www.deserttacticalarms.com/.
Just wondering on the feasibility of accuracy with a system like that. My understanding, can and willing to be corrected/further educated; is that taking the barrel on/off impares accuracy. Is that not correct? That got me thinking about this system, I like the fact that I could buy two different barrels and basically have a modular system for varying scenario's. But then again this is coming from my VERY limited knowledge of the subject. Still reading Ultimate Sniper and getting alot of ideas from there to.
And, as far as more info, well really I just want something that will take care of big game in my AO, my thoughts are that if it can do that it can handle any survival situation; and ranges can be so varied that I can only generalize it this way, somewhere between 400 and 1500 yds. Most hunting here is between those ranges with the 1500 yds being the extreme, have a relative that took an elk with a .338 at that range.
And this is going to be a work in progress, I want to do it right from the beginning I realize that there is no perfect platform and things may even change but if I start off with accurate information, I may not have much change to deal with.

Thanks guys, keep it coming . . . . .

What is the best group that you have ever shot, and at what range?

Iron sights or optics?

What do you plan to engage with it, humans or game? Singles or multiples?

What game animals are you looking to hunt?

How many rounds have you fired and do you plan to fire per year?

Have you received any formal marksmanship training?

A $3,000 1/4 moa rifle will not make the average person any better as a shooter than giving them a Porsche will make them a great driver.

Why do you need a removable barrel? Can you not fit a regular one into whatever you need to?

What is your justification for engaging a target at 1500 yds.?

Not sure you really have to engage game that would require more than a .30-'06 offers.

I would avoid the entire wannabe sniper issue.

A good hunting rifle will not be an optimal defense or survival rifle, and vice versa. It should beat a sharp stick though, if you know how to use it.

IMHO, I do not think you have refined your requirement adequately to allow an informed response.

TR

Buffalobob 09-17-2010 12:55

I think I pretty much know every one in Utah who has killed an elk beyond 1000 yards. Everyone is a small group of three people. Two were shooting a gun owned by a guy named Bawden and it was a 338 Thunder and the other guy was shooting a 7 Dakota.

Everything TR said I agree with.

I have several extreme range rifles that have killed quite a few animals beyond 800 yards. I compete regularly in 1K f-class. If what you really wish to do is to just hunt at long range then you should participate in the forum that is run just for that kind of thing. You should also have the shooting skills to compete in long range events

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/

I would just add that some people believe that being able to shoot accurately at 1000 yards will help them kill more animals. My own opinion is that if you cannot regularly kill animals under 100 yards then you do not know enough about animal behavior to do much good at long range.


If you want to build a switch barrel rifle all you will really need in the way of tools to change barrels is an action wrench and a headspace gauge for each chamber. First thing to do is to get an accurate action and that could be one such as the Stiller Predatpr

http://www.viperactions.com/

or Surgeon

http://www.surgeonrifles.com/products/actions/

or anyone of several others including a accurized Rem 700.

Second thing is to use a gunsmith who knows how to build such rifles.



Finally, to repeat what TR said- stay away from the the wannabe systems. Here are just a few stories to back up what you have been told about practice and long range rifles

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ad.php?t=21790

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ad.php?t=21854


I have already been to Utah elk hunting this year with my bow and when I finish typing this I am going up to the kitchen and warm me up some leftover elk shoulder roast. :D


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