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AF Chaplain under fire

Further proof of the erosion of this countries moral compass. Only one opinion that counts in this country, the opinion of the offended. Of course no one cares if this BS offends any of us.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-foxholes.html

Well, I had my first "DADT Repeal" briefing in a base chapel whilst mobilizing :rolleyes:
Moral compass you say? Their moral compass is so f'd up that they couldn't lead a penny to a whore house.

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Originally Posted by BryanK (Post 516848)

...they couldn't lead a penny to a whore house.

¿Que? I'm not sure I could either. :confused:

Pat

Hate speech? Wow. That may be the dumbest effing thing I've ever read. I disagree with the good Chaplain, but that certainly doesn't make anything hate speech...I will say, though, that I find the concept of a country having a 'moral compass,' kind of confusing. People have moral compasses, and most morals are completely subjective...so for a nation of varied individuals to have a moral compass is just...confusing...

If, however, we decide that a country should have a moral compass, decided based on its adherence to the ethics or morals required by a given religion, then I'll say this country's moral compass was gone long before any of us were born...and it had nothing to do with Chaplains...

Original story and chaplain's OpEd piece if anyone's interested in reading it.

Personally, I think the CH Reyes did an excellent job of 'walking the line' of not declaring a necessity for any 'religious' faith in his opinion piece and the JBER Cdr was in error in not standing up for what he said and his right to say it.

Richard

Chaplain Ordered to Remove Religious Essay From Military Website
FoxNewsRadio

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes...y-website.html

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Originally Posted by Richard (Post 516885)

Agree. I thought his piece was fair and balanced. I wonder if the situation had been reversed and an atheist wrote an opinion on why there was no God. If Christians had then complained, would the piece have been pulled?

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Originally Posted by JHD (Post 516887)

In general, I think both sides should just keep it to themselves, and stop writing articles. Atheism is just as much a 'faith,' as any religion, and equally irritating when it is pushed on me. I tend to follow the philosophy of "Religion is like a penis. It's ok to have one, and it's ok to be proud of it, but it's not ok to take it out and wave it around."

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Originally Posted by Irishsquid (Post 516890)

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but based on where he wrote it, his regular column, Chaplain's Corner, it seems like faith would be the primary topic.

Our progress in becoming a nation of the offended is nearly complete.

TR

Father Emil Kapaun just received a posthumous Medal of Honor for his Korean War service. Fast-forward to today, and we discipline a military chaplain for this?

There are a lot of overpaid leaders in this country.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper (Post 516900)

Our progress in becoming a nation of the offended is nearly complete.

TR

BiNGO!! Well said, well said. :lifter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irishsquid (Post 516890)

Have I missed something here, does the military now force religion on it's soldiers? I would never force my beliefs on anyone and in the same vein I would expect the same from those whose views differ from mine. If you are an atheist fine, if that works for you great. This man is a CHAPLAIN, it's all about his faith, it's his column and he is certainly entitled to his beliefs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbtengr (Post 516949)

Have I missed something here, does the military now force religion on it's soldiers?

Well, simply put, yes. Each and every time someone is forced to bow his/her head for a farce of a prayer. I didn't have a problem with it back when I went through boot camp, because I was a staunch Christian at the time...but yes...it was most certainly pushed. Right up there with "You can go to church on sunday, or you can police the barracks. Only way you get to rest is if you go to church."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brush Okie (Post 516952)

Look up the job of a Chaplin/minister/rabbi etc. It is to preach and talk to others about their faith. Notice I did not say push it on people but it is his JOB to talk about his faith, not keep it to himself.

That, I agree with. It is his job...and as I said, calling what he said 'hate speech,' is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I think the guy should be able to stand there in the middle of the service and preach his faith. Not watered down, not 'seeker-friendly,' and not PC. I think that is his job. I just don't exactly understand why there is a "Chaplain's Corner." If I want to get preached at, I'll go to the Sunday service. Then again, I suppose I always have the right not to read it...but can we at least have a "Physicist's Corner?" Clearly, that is a jest...really, though, yeah, my comment about not writing the article was out of line. It IS the Chaplain's job to preach his faith, and if he is given the space to do so in print, he should do so. He should also do so without fear that some idiot will cry "hate speech."

If the world wants to hear an example of hate speech, they should come talk to me, not a Chaplain in the service of a faith that truly does preach love for one's fellow man, regardless of what some of its practitioners do...

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper (Post 516900)

Our progress in becoming a nation of the offended is nearly complete.

TR

Quote:

After stints at prominent law firms in both New York City and Washington D.C., Mikey served as the first General Counsel to Texas billionaire and two-time Presidential candidate H. Ross Perot and Perot Systems Corporation. He left Mr. Perot’s employ in 2006 to focus his fulltime attention on the nonprofit charitable foundation he founded to directly battle the far-right militant radical evangelical religious fundamentalists: the Military Religious Freedom Foundation. (http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org)

And like many in the NOT 4 Profit Industry Mikey probably receives ample compensation for their so-called philanthropic work.

The funny thing is he doesn't say much about Radical Islam, his focus is Christianity.....I am guessing the Anti-Christian donor pool is far larger and far less life threatening.

Quote:

**SNIP**

About CAIR though, you’ve made some very ill-informed claims. They actually do preach tolerance, and loudly! This is why they are our allies. They support equal treatment of all US citizens, regardless of their religious allegiance. You’ve also made the claim that they support a “fake fantage religion, that is satanic.” No one could begin to argue that their religion is fake. It has more adherents than yours. While I’m not a believer of any of the religions that are causing you such severe indigestion, your argument that Islam is “fake” is hardly one coming from a person well versed in world religions. As for it being a satanic religion…well, you’ve jumped ship altogether there. The Islamic tradition does not worship or support Satan. They’re actually on your team as far as that character goes. Not friendly to the guy at all.

Cheers,

Blake A. Page
Military Religious Freedom Foundation
Special Assistant to the President
Director of West Point Affairs

And who is Blake Page....

http://www.zoominfo.com/p/Blake-Page/1880909235

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/blake-...b_2232279.html

Here is an interview with Mikey:

http://www.pjvoice.com/v32/32300words.aspx

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About four or five months later, I was at the Academy for a conference, when my younger son (who had just finished the arduous one-month combat survival training) asked me if it would be possible to sit down and talk. It was June 29, 2004, and he was very troubled. He told me he had been called a "fucking Jew," and that he and the Jewish people had total complicity in the execution of Jesus Christ by numerous people up and down the chain of command at numerous places around the Academy.

I took that back to the administration and told them to fix this or I would go to war. I gave them a few months, and then I went to war against them. I’ve been at war against them ever since, in late November 2004.

So his son was called a nasty name and Mikey took it upon himself to go to war against Christianity.

From Allen West:

Quote:

Obama’s conviction believes Mikey Weinstein of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, an oxymoronic title, must be allowed to castigate as seditious and treasonous the Christians in the military who profess their faith and to condemn them of categorically enacting “spiritual rape.”

Paslode- A very good example of the insurgency and the tactics used that are undermining every aspect of our society and very effectively too IMO. To paraphrase TR - the caliphate is nearly complete.

Boiling frogs :mad:

These atheists who are trying to bring down the system will not fare nearly as well under sharia rule.

TR

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper (Post 516995)

These atheists who are trying to bring down the system will not fare nearly as well under sharia rule.

TR

Quote:

From: Casey Weinstein
To: “Detractor”
Subject: Re: A Jewish Parent’s Response to Mikey Weinstein

Dear sir,
My name is Casey Weinstein. I am Mikey Weinstein’s son, a 2004 graduate of the Air Force Academy. It’s come to my attention that you wrote a note to MRFF and my family announcing that ‘all is clear’ at the Academy. While I am truly glad to hear that your children have not encountered religious harassment or institutional violations of the separation of church and state, I’m concerned by the tone of your email, particularly since you neglected to thank my father and my family for elevating this issue to the point of at least partial resolution. Indeed, taken at face value, your note is a slap in the face to my family. Are you insinuating that there is and has been NO problem at the Academy? Assuming I interpreted your email correctly, I’d like to share a few points with you:

1) My brother Curtis (class of 2007) and I did receive more than our share of harassment, intolerance, and institutional evangelization during our tenior at the Academy. Since you seem to be unaware, I’ll give you some examples of what we dealt with:
- Being called a ‘Fucking Jew’ and being addressed solely as ‘Jew’ by some of our classmates
- Having to march in ‘Heathen flight’ during Basic Cadet Training
- Being ostracized from our classmates for attending Friday night services, as training sessions conflicted with services at that time
- Sitting through countless mandatory briefings from members of our chain-of-command and ‘motivational’ speakers who were overtly pushing Christianity
- Having my fellow cadets pressure me to convert to Christianity
- Having post cards for ‘The Passion of the Christ’ plastered all over the Academy
- Having my Vice Wing Commander send out a wing-wide email advertising a ‘cadet-only’ screening and bashing anyone who took issue with the film
- Having my Rabbi agree to turn the National Prayer Breakfast into a Christian Service, and warning us not to make a fuss about it

*Note that this is a small sampling of what happened to us personally. There are far more heinous acts that have been and are being committed against our thousands of clients who have contacted us for help since we went public and founded MRFF

2) Beyond what happened at the Academy, my wife (also my classmate from USAFA) and I experienced countless incidents of religious harassment in the Active Duty Air Force that are far too numerous to list here.

3) My family has experienced a series of hateful acts against us personally, including having our tires slashed, windows shot out, thousands of death-threats leveled against us over the years, and a swastica and cross plastered over the front of our home. My father also sacrificed his and my mom’s financial security to make this cause his life’s work. So, this is personal for us.

4) We are not a ‘Jewish’ organization. In fact, the vast majority of our clients are Christian. So, you are spot on when you note that your observations are not ‘scientific’ – particularly since you’ve never spent a day as a Cadet – yet you feel comfortable enough to have formed an opinion about the entire institution.

Finally, my wife, who is also my classmate from the Air Force Academy, was never raped during the sexual assault scandal that we went through while cadets, though she did experience a harrowing incident that I won’t detail in this note. I would never think, however, to tell her that (in my opinion) I thought all was fine, and that The Academy does a great job of preventing and prosecuting sexual assaults. That seems to be what you’re telling us about the religious climate, though.

I hope you’ll understand that we have paid and are paying a significant price for speaking up about this. Before you signal that the issue we’ve fought so hard for as a family is non-existent, you should remember that.

Casey Weinstein

http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom....adets-vs-mrff/

I may be wrong, but seems like a whole lot of drama, whole lot of butt hurt, a whole lot of poor me and a whole lot of the world is against me.....I was just standing here, minding my own business, not bothering a soul and I got picked on for absolutely no reason.

And Mikey, he is a lawyer, he got some money, he thinks he kid can do no wrong and decides to get even while making a buck. Mikey might be one of those parents that show up at school with legal representation over a grade card.

People who do not see the similarity between Islam and the Borg will never get it (until the sword descends).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paslode (Post 517007)

Nor will the Jews, Gays, Lesbians, Eco Nuts, Animal Rights......anyone who goes against the will of Allah as seen by the Islamists.

Hell of a lot of of Leon Trotsky's in the making.

While I don't condone calling people names, it would be interesting to hear the other side of the story and what precipitated the 'Jew' remark towards Mikey's son.

Well............from Casey Weinstein

http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom....adets-vs-mrff/

I may be wrong, but seems like a whole lot of drama, whole lot of butt hurt, a whole lot of poor me and a whole lot of the world is against me.....I was just standing here, minding my own business, not bothering a soul and I got picked on for absolutely no reason.

And Mikey, he is a lawyer, he got some money, he thinks he kid can do no wrong and decides to get even while making a buck. Mikey might be one of those parents that show up at school with legal representation over a grade card.

I concur.

I my 25+ years of service in Infantry and SF units I have never seen anything more than a little friendly ribbing between Christians and Jewish soldiers. And it went both ways.

Maybe this had a lot more to do with his activism and looking for trouble, than any real discrimination.

In fact, the only incidents of threats or violence I saw during my service were committed by minorities.

TR

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR2 (Post 517010)

People who do not see the similarity between Islam and the Borg will never get it (until the sword descends).

You will assimilate.....

Oh Paslode there you go again.....

Islam is a religion of PEACE, just ask my buddy Algar the Albanian Muslim who studying civil engineering at the local college on a student visa.

Islam is a religion of peace, it is what they have all told me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper (Post 517011)

A soccer coach said to me awhile back that

Quote:

If you are having doubts then your daughter will undoubtedly pick up on it and could cloud her opinion of the same coach

According to the dubious source Wiki, Mikey has written:

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He has written that at the Academy he encountered a string of incidents of psychological harassment, including notes emblazoned with swastikas and anti-Semitic slurs, death threats, and two violent incidents of hazing where he was ambushed, beaten, and in one case hospitalized.[2]

Amazing his 2 sons appear to have had very similar the same experiences.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irishsquid (Post 516890)

like a penis. It's ok to have one, and it's ok to be proud of it, but it's not ok to take it out and wave it around."

good grief Irish, now were's the fun in that?

:D

S

Quote:

[The MRFF claimed Lt. Col. Reyes violated military regulation AFI 1-1, section 2.11 which requires 'Leaders at all levels must...avoid the actual or apparent use of their position to promote their personal religious beliefs to their subordinates...'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2aKisMxxU

Ok, as far as I know, all of the Chaplains subordinates are in the chaplains corps and I doubt that ANY of them would take offense to this. As far as it being on a website, I do believe that one clicks on any page voluntarily and as such is NOT forced to read any article. So, where is the force.

As to the individuals in the academy, I will stand against any one forcing their beliefs on me no matter what those beliefs are. I honestly think these guys were being pushy about their religion and got some push back. Every one has a right to their beliefs, whether Christian, Jew, Muslim, atheist or any thing else. They even have a right to evangelize. However, if I tell them I am not interested and they continue, THEN it is a violation of my rights and you may not like what I have to say on return.

Sundays in church in basic.... As much as not forcing religion on you, the .gov can not deny your religious beliefs and practices. So, Sunday passes for church are not to force you into religion but to comply with with the constitution in not "restricting the free exercise thereof". So, if you are stuck policing the barracks, that is your choice. Don't pick and choose what part of religion you want to follow. Sunday being a day of rest is a judeao Christian principle having to do with genesis. If you absolutely decry faith in God, then you also decry Sunday off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Mentalist (Post 517083)

Sundays in church in basic.... As much as not forcing religion on you, the .gov can not deny your religious beliefs and practices. So, Sunday passes for church are not to force you into religion but to comply with with the constitution in not "restricting the free exercise thereof". So, if you are stuck policing the barracks, that is your choice. Don't pick and choose what part of religion you want to follow. Sunday being a day of rest is a judeao Christian principle having to do with genesis. If you absolutely decry faith in God, then you also decry Sunday off.

Sunday isn't - the "sabbath" is, and, by our calendar, it is Sunday for most Christians but other days for some Christian groups and many other religious beliefs, such as the majority (but not all) of those "Judeo-" ffolkes you mention.

Richard

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSM (Post 516869)

¿Que? I'm not sure I could either. :confused:

Pat

I was pointing out that their moral compass is so screwed up, that even when they head in the direction of malfeasance, they can't even get that right. Clear as mud? :D