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-   -   18-BRAVO Training section (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47830)

MtnGoat 01-13-2015 12:56

18-BRAVO Training section
 
Okay I'd like to start a Thread just targeting 18 Bravos. 18F's have a Booklist, so I think Bravos needed their own. Since the Bravos are the ones that will be the ones to come up with training plans for the ODA downrange, CNT's, JCET's or home station.

I know we have many big heads here so I would say keep it for weapons and training.

WHY you may ask? Because, I have been on ODAs where the Bravo's didn't know why we did shooting drills for. They didn't understand the fundamentals of shooting a (Emplace whatever here). Why we did 6", 4" or 2" DOTS. Why did you line up three Bull (E-Types) Targets side by side and stand 10 Meters from them and do this series of firing strings. Didn't have targets for lasers, optics, machine guns, etc. Understand why you have a short, medium and long barrels. Why we have a ACOG, ELCAN, Thermal sight scope, and anything else. "No need to bring that, I don't know how to XXYYZZ."

That my friends is the reason behind this thread. To provide Bravos the tools, tradecraft and KNOWLEDGE for understanding and knowing where to go get the knowledge for improving their own personal shooting TTPs. But moreover, HOW TO IMROVE their ODAs shooting skillsets and improve their ODA training schedules and plans. Knowledge on things that you as a current or former 18-Bravo wish someone had told me (You).

Also how to make their ODA better trainers to other and overseas. Keep in mind for the 18-Series, everyone is a Small Unit Tactics (SUT) Master, you all did it in SFQC. It’s not just the 18-Bravos that should be teaching this. Also everyone on the ODA should be able to train a Company level with one or two other ODA Members. SO you need to educate yourself on weapons and fundamentals of shooting even if you never been to a SFAUCC or SFARTEATC.

Lastly 18-Series you MUST know more than just your MOS. Special Forces can be broken down into 3 to 4 man split teams, you do remember that from the SFQC? Know more than just your own MOS!!

MtnGoat 01-13-2015 12:59

First off I would say an ODA should be getting these on their first CNT or JCET. Great books by three great Warriors.

Green Eyes & Black Rifles: Warriors Guide to the Combat Carbine

Stay in the Fight!! Warriors Guide to the Combat Pistol

T.A.P.S. : Tactical Application of Practical Shooting

For me this T.A.P.S is one AWESOME toilet book that every SF NCO should have. It covers down of the simple reasons for weapons shooting training of tactical applications for shooting to people of all levels of marksmanship, from basic level soldiers to experience level shooters.

MtnGoat 01-13-2015 13:28

25Meter Targets
 
1 Attachment(s)
First Series of 25M Zero Targets

MtnGoat 01-13-2015 13:31

Standard 25 Meter Targets
 
1 Attachment(s)
This is just a stand 25 Meter target. Great to have in an draft email just in case for downrange.

MtnGoat 01-13-2015 13:32

SOFMOD Targets
 
3 Attachment(s)
Here are one that were originally for the SOFMOD Kits. But with Conventional having the same sights for they are now universal. :)

MtnGoat 01-13-2015 13:37

PART 1 10-Meter Bore Target Boards
 
1 Attachment(s)
Part 1 for 10-Meter M4/M16 Targets for various optics, lights and lasers for typically "Conventional" non M4 MWS (Modular Weapon System) with a Picatinny rails system.

MtnGoat 01-13-2015 13:38

Part 2 10-Meter M4/M16 Targets
 
1 Attachment(s)
Part 2 for 10-Meter M4/M16 Targets for various optics, lights and lasers for typically "Conventional" non M4 MWS (Modular Weapon System) with a Picatinny rails system.

MtnGoat 01-13-2015 13:40

ANPEQ 15 Machine Gun Target Package
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here are Target Boards for Various Machine Guns.

MtnGoat 01-13-2015 13:42

Handgun Evaluation
 
1 Attachment(s)
I have other Handguns targets but just can't find them now. Also this isn't the best thing going. But it helps for some people.

MtnGoat 01-13-2015 14:09

Rifle Target Analyst
 
1 Attachment(s)
Now this not the best thing going, but for a simple understanding of what is going on with a Joe shooting this works.

Also it works for any rifle, as far as I can tell.

glebo 01-13-2015 16:04

Well, IMHO, it's just not the engagement of technical, upper edge weapons/systems. As we all know it's the employment of said weapons that takes some know-how. Also, base defense plans, SUT, care and maintenance as previously stated etc, etc.

We need to teach the LBG's 7-8 (or whatever FM now a days stuff).

When I went through PH1 in 82, we did "SF Patrolling" techniques, unique to an ODA, but when down range, conventional stuff for them.

There is a delineation of said tactics...one for us, one for them...

MtnGoat 01-14-2015 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by glebo (Post 572277)
Well, IMHO, it's just not the engagement of technical, upper edge weapons/systems. As we all know it's the employment of said weapons that takes some know-how. Also, base defense plans, SUT, care and maintenance as previously stated etc, etc.

We need to teach the LBG's 7-8 (or whatever FM now a days stuff).

When I went through PH1 in 82, we did "SF Patrolling" techniques, unique to an ODA, but when down range, conventional stuff for them.

There is a delineation of said tactics...one for us, one for them...

I agree, 100%. It's not just about know how to do a functions check on a weapon, knowing 7 principles of patrolling, or understand the fundamentals of shooting. It's know all of your MOS and then the others on your ODA in reality (IMHO).

I personally feel that USASFC needs to have the Groups set up POIs that the Groups send to USASOC to have them "blessed" off on by USASOC FDO. Then USASOC FDO or USASFC uploads them onto SIPR in a Group Folders that only that Group can get too. Each Group teaches their own basic style of say SUT, CQB, ETC to their AOR. This is so we don't have ODAs out there teaching standard 7-8 TTPs. We need each Group teaching different TTPs on every SUT, CQB, MFF, WIC. Why, cross pollination and training indicators between different Groups and countries. Also I'll just say this, you will not have some ODA teaching US AMOUT or SFAUCC TTPs to foreign nations forces.

I'll say this, I never let 18-Bravos teach 3 to 5 second rushes. I said, let them do what they want. I looked at it this way, I want a target if they table ever change and we are on the other end of the rifle. Just saying.

I would always try to beat this into guys heads when they came to me for advice for going on a PDSS for a JCET or CNT. "Hey what should I be looking for?" May advice was this.

You are going there for the Dept of State to make that Countries SOF Unit, Police Force, Counter Border Patrol Unit, Whatever units better. YOU ARE not teaching an American Unit. So don't think like an American. Find out what THEIR Standards are for weapons qualification, what the leadership considers or expects for their men to be able to do for CQB. How do they conduct SUT, CQB Room clearing, mission planning. You are their to find out what the leaderships expectation for their men in THEIR Unit. From that and seeing the facilities in country you will have to make a Training plan.

To many ODAs go into country thinking they will teach this or that. We are their to take what they know NOW or ALREADY and make them better.

Lastly I will say this, there are some that do need to be retaught or refresh their engagement of technical, upper edge weapons/systems too.

Dusty 01-14-2015 07:49

When I was 18B, it always seemed to me that our ODA didn't spend enough time on Team IAD's and other Team-specific tasks, such as rope bridges, RON procedures, etc.
When we were training indig, we were always pressed for time going all the way up to tactical training for Company-sized units, as well...

frostfire 01-17-2015 20:44

1 Attachment(s)
There are plenty 'sniper' or precision rifle data books out there. There isn't much for regular combat rifle. Here's a combat rifle data book for professional marksmen who want the most out of their A2/A4.

Mods, please remove if irrelevant.

WarriorDiplomat 01-25-2015 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusty (Post 572321)
When I was 18B, it always seemed to me that our ODA didn't spend enough time on Team IAD's and other Team-specific tasks, such as rope bridges, RON procedures, etc.
When we were training indig, we were always pressed for time going all the way up to tactical training for Company-sized units, as well...

Agreed, I have noticed that the the CO level up to include many teams do not even consider a true assessment that is data from the 18F on threats and capabilities, PDSS data and the most important piece the continuity from the GCC strategic plan down to the country level on what the endstate should be and the 5 yr projection. As of now many teams are running mini SFAUC's for host nation forces that spend of their career along borders in rural/desert conditions. I myself was told what to train and I would assess anyway and brief the team leadership on what they really need.

The Q still uses 21-76 RHB however X-rays and Infantry in general the last 8 yrs learn 3-21.8 and .10 which is different in many ways. The basics stay the same and agrred with all indig do not need to be expert marksman or U.S. Infantry standards train them to what they NEED to accomplish their objectives nothing more. Recent history shows we will be fighting someone we have trained before the question is when.

The 18B needs to understand, Leadership, U.S. weapons, Marksmanship principles, tactics, defense, and equally important foreign tactics and weapon capabilities. IMHO a basic understanding of psychology and motivating factors. As a Weapons Sgt you will spend more time with indig than anyone else and will hear atmospherics daily that should end up in the daily sitrep.


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