I like that list.

It addresses most of the basic needs without gold plating, and adds capability and comfort as it grows.

As a minimum, do you think you could survive (not necessarily prosper) for 60 days in Pineland with just the smallest kit?

The carabiners must be a 10th SFGA thing. I do not use mine that often, and would prefer the weight/bulk in other goods.

TR

It would not be very comfortable, but yes, I think I could survive in Pineland for two months during the time of year you stated. I could probably just get by with a little less than the things in the hard case, but I'd be a wreck at the end of it.

I added a 'biner to the small pouch kit because a) its aluminum so its pretty light, but strong, b) I have many of the tools from the pouch connected to it for accountability, and I could use it to dummycord things to me, but make them easy to remove and c) because I could use it to make a vertical haul line, a z-pulley, a rig to suspend a carcass for field dressing if I was so lucky as to kill something larger than a bunny or squirrel, etc. I tossed a couple more into the assault ruck list because I find 'em pretty handy for a number of basic pioneering-type mechanical advantage systems.

Razor,
I like your med kit list. I don't have very good luck with the Betadine swabs, they always seem to leak. I also wouldn't worry too much about the antacids - grubs and ants never gave me indigestion. LOL

Audience, Razor has focused his med kit on most likely. You are much more likely to have a small cut become a big problem than you are to be mauled by a bear. To me, survival is a series of small tasks - done well hopefully. Don't underestimate the value of antihistimines. Rashes and bug bites can drive some people insane.

Clean water, properly preparing your food, and being careful when utlizing your knife and other implements can go a long way.

The multi-vitamins are good. They can prevent disease in long term situations. Also keep the mind sharp.

NDD:

I always like the little 5 ml or so bottles of Betadine. Mine have seldom, if ever broken or leaked. I have been told that under emergency conditions, you can also use it for water purification and as a thyroid blocker.

Antacids have a lot of fillers and sugar, in addition to calcium, and can be an emergency source of energy.

Just my .02.

TR

Would it be better to have a headlamp instead of a handheld flashlight (like a Petzl, etc)?

Just a question,

Sire24657

Too bulky, IMHO.

Photon is about it for a 1st line PSK, I would go to a Surefire on a 2nd line light.

TR

I couple years ago all students in our armed forces sere instructor school was asked what they was missing most during their field training(all they had was a knife). About half wanted a waterbottle and the other half wanted a container to boil in. As for me:
1. Knife, Fallkniven F1 or AI
2. Issue fire steel
3. Something to boil in
4. Nalgene Waterbottle
5. Fisching gear
6. Silva 15T Ranger Compass

Allways when i am in uniform i carry the following:
Fallkniven F1, issue firesteel, matches, Silva 15T Ranger Compass, Garmin GPS, Nalgene bottle, small survival kit, A Blow out kit and a small personal medical kit(Blister, cuts and feel happy meds), primus stove, Petzl Tactica, surfire 6V and ASP Led light, cord and spare batteries.

When i attend staff meetings and things like that i keep it in a small daypack. My daypack have a camelback Storm in it.

Found it....

Found what?

Admin stuff, I had to "tag" this thread so I could find it again.... don't make me 'splain it, again... :cool:

When I attend staff meetings I bring a pillow, or no-doze if I am expected to participate.

Roger, Team Daddy. 1, 2, 3 - 1; 1, 2, 3 - 2; 1, 2, 3... :)

I would like to add that branches, from e.g. spruce or pine trees, is good to use as padding of floor/bed. The insulation stops heat from dissipating.

To keep warmth while sleeping, it is a good idea to not have much too tight on you, as in actually wearing the coat. Instead curl up and cover yourself with as many layers as you can.

Source is FBU-Ungdom (Volunteer Leadership Education Youth, military affiliated).

Interesting...

My 11 year-old daughter just showed me a project she is working on for school: she has to live in the wilderness for one month. "List the things you would take with you and what you have to do to survive. You have a cabin with a fireplace but no electricity, no running water, but a stream is nearby."

What does she bring with her and what does she have to do to live for the month?

I am giving her a bit of time to work on this herself before I interject....

I think it will be interesting to see what she puts down before I give her some thinking tidbits....

Sire24657

I'd bring my fishing gear and a cooler full of beer. Everything else is optional.

All you really need are food, water, shelter, and fire.

The tools to provide those are up to her, if she is not permitted to bring food herself.

With what she is given, knowledge, appropriate clothing, a knife, a fire starter, and something to boil water/cook in is all she really needs to survive. Some cordage would be a nice addition, but is not absolutely necessary.

Some kids would probably require a CONEX to hold all of the junk they think they need.

TR

I agree that that is all she needs. The assignment says that she can bring whatever she wants, as long as it fits in a helicopter. I give her advice as she tells me what she thinks.

I am trying to forcefeed her that the most important things are food, shelter (which is given in the form of the cabin), water (the stream), and clothing (she brings that in).

She says she needs a pot to boil water (she learned that from me watching "Survivor), a knife (aaahh, my daughter), a gun to hunt with, she brought the fishing pole, but says she needs to find bait.... All in all a good start for her, I think.

I just need to keep her in the mindset of what she would have to do to live out there.

Do you have any recommendations on how to do that?

Out here (in Oregon) we have a civilian helicopter called the S-64 Skycrane for ariel logging and firefighting. It has a 25,000 lb rated lift capacity.

Your daughter should do just fine.

We talking a MD-500 or an MI-26 for a helicopter? :)

The most important thing she will have is good common sense, and knowledge. If I knew in advance I was entering this situation, I would study survival, field medicine, do an area study of the general location, and plan off of a map of the actual area. I would also get a medical and dental check-up, and take a double basic load of any needed meds, and multivitamins.

The helicopter weight allowance changes the equation completely. With that weight allowance, I would relook the load to multiple rucks and bags, and plan on humping them from the LZ to the cabin.

For fire, I would take several butane lighters, and some tinder. Is firewood readily available?

A compass and map is a must. Also a good watch.

For a month, you can carry enough food to survive in a very large ruck, providing she likes rice, beans, cornmeal, oatmeal, powdered milk, oil, salt, sugar, packaged meat, etc. An all game and fish diet will get pretty boring, pretty quickly, even if you are successful. I would bring a ruck and several kit bags of food and gear.

If she is set on catching food, a firearm is pretty inefficient, unless the area has a lot of large game, which equals large predators. Stick with fishing (nets and traps work well) and snaring or trapping game for food. Plenty of Cordage and wire for traps and snares. Firearm is only going to be helpful for self defense, or large game, though a good .22LR pistol is handy for running a trap line. If she is in an area with dangerous game, she needs the most powerful weapon she can use well. For game, she will need a knife that works well for skinning. Does she know how to catch and prepare game? More things to study in advance. I would also take a Leatherman tool, if at all possible, and a camp axe for wood collecting and large game prep. A stone for sharpening (and some good instruction so no injuries occur). A hacksaw blade and maybe a file.

She does not need bait if she takes lures. Sounds as if they will let her bring well over 100 lbs. of gear, so whatever fishing she knows, be it fly, pole, or net will work.

I would bring an MSR stove and fuel, a camping pot and frying pan, ZIPLOCs, aluminum foil, and a mess kit with cup. Also a water purifier and an assortment of water bladders.

A sleeping bag appropriate for the climate.

She will need a first aid kit with instructions, and a small wilderness med book.

Don't forget a small notebook and pencil.

A roll of toilet paper, a small plastic trowel (or an e-tool), toothpaste and toothbrush, and personal hygiene items could be useful, along with a small mirror.

Consider a number of light sources, from a Photon, to a head lamp, to a high intensity LED light like the Surefire, and possibly a lantern.

Maybe a multiband shortwave radio with rechargeable batteries and a solar panel. Perhaps a very small instrument, like a harmonica.

A roll of duct tape for repairs, maybe a tarp, ground cloth, or some Visqueen. I like to carry a film cannister with small nails, eye hooks, wire, tacks, screws, needles and thread, etc. I usually wrap it with fishing line or fine snare wire, covered by several feet of electrical tape.

She would need to set up a daily routine, and stick with it. Is she expecting to be rescued at some point, or is it a scheduled pick-up? If no rescue or signalling gear required, that is more space for everything else.

Most tasks would involve food gathering and prep, water gathering and processing, maintaining/improving the cabin and taking care of herself. Keeping a journal is helpful for a number of reasons.

Hope that helps.

TR

I really appreciate the advice. I will go over this with her this weekend, then go over it with my son as well.

Thanks again, TR,

Sire24657

If that's the limit, I'm taking a loaded RV. :D

I was hoping that this interesting situation could be brought up again; it is an interesting discussion that I feel could be touched on more...

Sire24657

Nothing to add except tweezers, I have a knack of attracting little critters and splinters.

I know have another reason to spend money. Thanks for the input all.

A lot of good information in this thread.

My question is this...

Food.

In a survival situation as described in the "Pinelands" are you relying on having a firearm to hunt with?

If not, what are you doing for food. Are you eating game or bugs?

I'm not sure what they teach in SERE but are you tracking and trapping animals, or are you making improvised weapons such as spears or even a bow and arrow if possible.

I know everyone isn't a Tom Brown.
I'd like to hear different methods.

As always, thx

ZoneOne, I guess you didn't read my thread about hiking with "friends". :D

I asked you what you would need.

Do you need a firearm to get game?

I think that traps and snares are much more efficient, along with fishing.

A .22LR can come in handy for putting down dangerous game in traps if you need it, though a club or spear will work just as well.

You can also forage for plants and insects, if you know how.

TR

:-) Good read

_______________

First thing I was told to get immediately before you go to achieve the 4 steps needed to survive is a throwing stick, something heavy enough that it could kill small game upon impact.

Once you got it, go on to make shelter, gather fire wood, food or what not and if anything runs in front of you... throw the stick at it and hopefully you can hit it and then you've gotten a free meal and didn't use much energy.



-- Q? anyone know how to flint nap?
im learning, but I've got too many cuts on my hands after wiping my legs down : :(

I'm not trying to sound like I know much about anything, but my father used to take me out camping for weeks when I was kid, and he tried to instill in my that as long as you have a blade and drinkable water, you are going to be able to get along. Those lessons have me always carrying a knife on me at all times, and a hatchet and halizone pills in my jeep.

Tom Brown has a story in one of his books about taking down a deer with a knife, it's a good story. I think it was a little harder than he wanted it to be, but he got er done.

I think for me I would want my hatchet, my old as crap case mini trapper, and something to make the water good. With that I can make shelter, make fire, make traps or bows and arrows(provided i can find some turkey feathers lying around, and drink.

Sounds like fun.

I have never, ever seen game taken that way. I think you will go hungry if you count on that technique. I would consider cutting a GP walking stick/spear first.

I have seen a Honduran soldier knock a flushed bird out of the air with a well-thrown rock.

TR

I see from your profile that you are quitting college because of the "liberals". Before you pull the trigger, you might sign up for a couple physical anthropology and archaeology courses. I had a professor at UT Austin teach me how to make a hand axe and spear thrower the "old way" over beers once, and those could prove useful in the situation you describe. The spear thrower, in particular, is deadly and very accurate when used properly. You can use your new hand axe to make one. ;)

It's not so much complete reliance on one specific technique.

But what I was told makes sense.

Taking a "throwing stick" with you when you go for water or wood to make shelter/fire makes sense in my opinion.

While I've never seen it work either, I would try it in a real survival situation.

You're idea of a spear is great but I think too much energy is being spent right off the bat to carve a spear.

Picking up a stick that you can later burn seems just plain simple to me.

I think the same idea applies to the "throwing stick" -- anyone who has been out in the woods surviving or just camping has seen a squirrel or rabbit run out in front of them. A well thrown stick could take it out, making a free meal. But like anything it would take practice or a natural born ability to throw accurately

LOL I guess I should change that in my profile. I'm not really quitting in the give up sense of the word. I'm finishing up the semester. I wouldn't let them have all my money for nothing. I have a degree already I have just been adding to it.

By hand made axe do you refer to making one out of flint? I have made one. It looks like it was done by a retarted rabbit. Arrow head making is one of my hobbies. It's very frustrating, but if you make a nice piece it's totally worth it.

One of these days I'll be good at it. Untill them I have to live with sliced up hands and pieces of flint getting in my eyes.

M

Its certainly a technique. Feel free to stake your life on it; I'll focus on something else I've actually seen work, and pretty well at that.

If you have fire, from the glasses. You can burn through whatever you need to cut. Slow and primative but it works, sort of.

I want to see you gut game and clean fish with fire.

Do you have a lot of survival experience?

TR

TR, I said it works sort of, sorry I wasn't more clear. I was meaning that it would work for cutting through wood, rope, and other such related things. I see your point about the cleaning of game.

I am still alive. :D
If you mean like actual in-the-field experience, it would be safe to say that you have done more than I have.
As far as my training goes, I can proudly say that I earned the Wilderness Survival Merit badge through the Boy Scouts of America and I have read parts of an Air Force Survival Manual. I know it is nothing compared to what you have been thruogh and have been taught and learned, but it is a good start; don't you think?

I think if I was a 17 year old, I would be lurking here unless I had some expertise or knowledge that would be valuable. I certainly would not argue survival with an experienced SF soldier.

I would not walk around my house without a knife in my pocket, much less attempt an extended survival period without one. I would love to see you get by in the woods for 60 days without one though.

I think that you are fairly well trained for 17, in this day and age. Most of those here who grew up in a rural area 30 or 40 years ago could teach you a lot, if you would listen.

Think about it.

TR

TR, I was not trying to argue any survival point, I was only trying to provide a different angle on how to cut something such as rope or wood. I would rather have a axe, saw or knife but in situations like the one described we have to make do with what we have.

“I would not walk around my house without a knife in my pocket.” I carry a knife at almost all possible times unless the law prohibits it.

“I would love to see you get by in the woods for 60 days without one though.” It would be a difficult challenge and very much a noteworthy accomplishment if it is done.

“I think that you are fairly well trained for 17, in this day and age.” Thank you, but I know that there is much more for me to learn. Much to learn this young Jedi does. Much to teach the old Jedi can.

“Most of those here who grew up in a rural area 30 or 40 years ago could teach you a lot, if you would listen.

Think about it.”

I am listening, (I admit I did something extremely dumb, I posted before I read the entire thread. That method takes all the fun out reading on this site, so I will read the entire thread before I post again.)

TR, I know you are busy and I would not want to become a bother, but I would really like to hear what you have to talk about on this subject more in depth, based on the post I have read it is safe to say that you are good in the woods. If my math is correct I assume that you are talking about yourself and others?

It took a bit of time but reading everyone’s input was worth it.

One item two uses with a bit of rigging. If you magnetize the needle and place it in water, preferably in a cup or something you can move, you have a compass. Only a slight problem, that is fixable, of knowing north and south, other than that it is good as any other compass (so long as the magnetism holds on the needle.)

There's a show out now on the Science Channel (part of Discovery) called Surivor Man.

The guy is a survival expert and seems to be similar to Tom Brown Jr.
Scenarios are portrayed for the sake of entertainment and a plot. He films himself for a week.

He only carries few equipment, stuff you would normally have in any situation.

Pretty interesting show, any survival enthusiasts out there might want to check it out.

Usually comes on around 9pm EST on Fridays.